drnigam
19.03.2013, 17:10
(edited by drnigam, 30.03.2013, 00:33) |
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient) (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)
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Jarjar,
Kindly mail at dr.rahul1970@gmail.com,i will forward you some regulatory details you asked me to enquire.
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hairman2
19.03.2013, 17:56
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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dear Dr. Nigam,
from your post i have some serious concerns as to whether your interest is to to prove your own technique or rather to discredit Dr. Gho's technique. Your comparative advertising is a bit disconcerting.
By no stretch of imagination do I see any white dots in the blue circled areas which you have marked. In fact the image is far to blurry to even see anything up close. The circles seem to be placed in spaces between follicles and sometimes even directly on a growing follicle. One could however argue that there appears to be some extent of donor thinning, however without comparative before pictures this is going to be hard to prove. What you certainly cannot see however, are typical FUE like white dot scars.
I also do not recall Neversaynever ever having complained about "huge swelling of the face". I could however be wrong about that... let's wait to hear it from the good man himself.
Furhter, all the people I know that have undergone HST have said that the discomfort of HST was extremely minimal. I think when you are paying 10k€ for a procedure the physical pain is probably one of your least concerns  Putting HST at point 10 of a scale, makes it appear as though, HST was some kind of extremely painful procedure. Of course you could argue that you are merely leveling the bar at HST but from the context of it all it certainly appears that you have an ulterior motive to discredit Dr. Gho's procedure.
I am however, not quite sure why you consider this to be "plucking" rather than FUE-like extraction. When I pluck my hair I do not see visible 0.7mm blood filled holes in my scalp. There does seem to be less blood than with FUE... anyway it would be great if you could elaborate on how exactly you are plucking the hairs.
Nevertheless, I do not want to sound ungrateful. I think the work you are doing is very important and will hopefully revolutionary changes in the HT industry. If your plucking technique works as promised, then there will be no necessity to discredit Dr. Gho's work. People will flock to your clinic(s)
I am pretty eager to hearing from Neversaynever himself.
regards,
hairman2
hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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drnigam
19.03.2013, 18:28
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Dear ALL,
It was great to receive a knowledgeable and senior forum member NEVERSAYNEVER at my clinic at mumbai.We advised him to do patch test for our new technique of plucked hair implant with stemcells and dp cells.But he decided to go for 2000 grafts .But with whatever available time we could loosened the FU with 0.7mm hollow needle (will use 0.4mmhollow needle for his rest of the 1000 fu on his next visit)and pluck 1028 FU from the donor scalp(the plucked hair contained 3/4th follicle with bulge stemcells and part of outer root sheath and sorrounding tissue )and implanted the same at the recipient temples and partly at the hair line.276 follicles were converted from double follicular unit to single follicle for the hair line.So total he recieved 1028+276=1304 follicles at the recipient temples.The donor fu are intact with its blood supply and we can already see few grafts regenerating on day 1 at the donor.
Both at the donor and the recipient also recieved activated progenitor stemcells,isolated dp cells from the follicles extracted from the chest.(we did not wanted to waste donor scalp grafts for stemcell and dp cell isolation).
Both the donor and the recipient scalp also received 6 growth factors to boost the follicles and were soaked for few minutes in the preservation media.Also used was prp with ECM.
He is also provided with ECM to apply for 3 days on his donor and recipient.
All the implanted follicles are seen intact and visible at the recipient on day 1.
He has a birth mark at the donor from where 10 grafts were plucked to monitor the donor regeneration.
Because of last HST procedure 1year back his donor scalp at many places is seen with white fue like dots with no hair regeneration.Specially around his birth mark at the donor the density is less as compared to the picture posted by moopooko on day 1 of last years hst procedure wherein hst had difficulty harvesting his grafts around his birth mark.
You can also ask about poor regrowth after hst at the recipient to neversaynever.
Since he had done 1200graft hst last year,he can compare our results with dr gho's.
Donor regeneration will be 100% ,i have no doubt.We all have to watch the % plucked hair with stemcells recipient regeneration.I will not be surprised if he may have more than implanted hair growth due to stemcell and dp cell injection at the donor and recipient.
I will post video microscopic pics tomorrow.Rest of the pics from day2 has to be posted by neversay never.Because of ECM application on his donor and recipient ,he may take few days to post his pics once he can wash off the ECM tomorrow from the scalp.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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drnigam
19.03.2013, 18:57
(edited by drnigam, 19.03.2013, 19:18)
@ hairman2
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Dear hairman,
I have full respect for Dr.Gho as any colleague would have for its fellow colleague. Here I am comparing the techniques, not individuals. As we all praise or critically see questions while comparing different techniques,
I take your criticism for using 0.7 mm outer diameter which means 0.6 mm inner diameter hollow needle and not FUE punch. I will correct this to 0.3 mm inner diameter for my next procedure as this a new technique, I purposely used 0.6 mm inner diameter hollow needle to loosen the graft so that I can pluck out 3/4th of the graft with sufficient surrounding tissue. If I would have used o.3 mm hollow needle to loosen the graft, I might have wasted few grafts and surrounding tissue.
To answer your question that why I am comparing my technique with Dr.Gho because we are only 2 doctors in the world doing donor doubling as far as I know. Be critical of me wherever you find my technique flawed or if I am unethical but why do you want to defend HST or me if HST or I claim to use needles to extract stem cells in-vivo. One of the member who wrote me the mail, quoted the mail from HST that their preservation medium is like 'coca-cola; formula which is a secret which they cannot disclose and they claim it is because of this secret preservation medium, they can multiply stem cells from the partial grafts extracted by soaking them in this medium.Kindly go through their patent application under European patents where HST clearly mentions, it is the extra cellular matrix like collagen, laminin which activates and multiplies the stem cells by soaking the partial grafts in ECM. Do you want me to remain silent on this ? If I am into advertising alone, I would have already asked 80 forum members who have mailed me and who wants to get HM or Doubling or Plucking transplant at my clinic but I have asked most of them to visit my clinic only after 2 months when my DP culture will be ready. Dr.Zeiring and Dr.Cole also had a hot debate in one of the thread wherein Dr Zeiring supported the technique of ARTAS and Dr.Cole supported ACELL. Dr.Zeiring disagreed with ACELL and the hot debate was useful for all of us to understand the 2 techniques. I welcome Dr.Gho to counter my techniques so that I can improve, similarly I will highlight certain flaws in his technique which he can take the benefit of if he wants. I am in India, he is in Amsterdam, we are not direct competitors but are here to improve the next big thing in hairloss industry THE DONOR DOUBLING and THE HAIR DOUBLING.
By the way, I hope to see Dr.Gho at 7th World Congress on hair research dedicated to Hair Stem Cell where Costaralis, highly respected Jahoda are also coming. I will not shy away from discussing the same there. Its healthy, its needed. Regarding the huge swelling after HST, how will I know if neversaynever would have not told me. How will I know that neversaynever had a problem from HST while extraction of partial grafts around his birth mark at the donor, had not moopookoo told me and sent me the pictures of day 1 of his procedure with HST last year.When I saw low density around the birth mark from HST, I posted the same. As you have the right to know the shortfalls of Dr.Nigam, equally you have the right to know the shortfalls of HST.
The hollow needle is to loosen the graft and not dig deep like fue and extract the graft to avoiad any mark.
 Originally Posted by hairman2
»
» from your post i have some serious concerns as to whether your interest is
» to to prove your own technique or rather to discredit Dr. Gho's technique.
» Your comparative advertising is a bit disconcerting.
»
» By no stretch of imagination do I see any white dots in the blue circled
» areas which you have marked. In fact the image is far to blurry to even see
» anything up close. The circles seem to be placed in spaces between
» follicles and sometimes even directly on a growing follicle. One could
» however argue that there appears to be some extent of donor thinning,
» however without comparative before pictures this is going to be hard to
» prove. What you certainly cannot see however, are typical FUE like
» white dot scars.
»
» I also do not recall Neversaynever ever having complained about "huge
» swelling of the face". I could however be wrong about that... let's
» wait to hear it from the good man himself.
»
» Furhter, all the people I know that have undergone HST have said that the
» discomfort of HST was extremely minimal. I think when you are paying 10k€
» for a procedure the physical pain is probably one of your least concerns
» Putting HST at point 10 of a scale, makes it appear as though, HST was some
» kind of extremely painful procedure. Of course you could argue that you are
» merely leveling the bar at HST but from the context of it all it certainly
» appears that you have an ulterior motive to discredit Dr. Gho's procedure.
»
» I am however, not quite sure why you consider this to be "plucking" rather
» than FUE-like extraction. When I pluck my hair I do not see visible 0.7mm
» blood filled holes in my scalp. There does seem to be less blood than with
» FUE... anyway it would be great if you could elaborate on how exactly you
» are plucking the hairs.
»
» Nevertheless, I do not want to sound ungrateful. I think the work you are
» doing is very important and will hopefully revolutionary changes in the HT
» industry. If your plucking technique works as promised, then there will be
» no necessity to discredit Dr. Gho's work. People will flock to your
» clinic(s)
»
» I am pretty eager to hearing from Neversaynever himself.
»
» regards,
» hairman2
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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drnigam
19.03.2013, 19:07
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Dear ALL,
It was great to receive a knowledgeable and senior forum member NEVERSAYNEVER at my clinic at Mumbai. We advised him to do patch test for our new technique of plucked hair implant with stem cells and DP cells. But he decided to go for 2000 grafts. But with whatever available time we could get to loosened the FU with 0.7 mm hollow needle (will use 0.4 mm hollow needle for his rest of the 1000 FU on his next visit)and pluck 1028 FU from the donor scalp(the plucked hair contained 3/4th follicle with bulge stem cells and part of outer root sheath and surrounding tissue)and implanted the same at the recipient temples and partly at the hair line. 276 follicles were converted from double follicular unit to single follicle for the hair line. So total he received 1028+276=1304 follicles at the recipient temples. The donor FU are intact with its blood supply and we can already see few grafts regenerating on day 1 at the donor.
Both at the donor and the recipient areas also received activated progenitor stem cells, isolated DP cells from the follicles extracted from the chest (we did not wanted to waste donor scalp grafts for stem cell and DP cell isolation).
Both the donor and the recipient scalp also received 6 growth factors to boost the follicles and were soaked for few minutes in the preservation media. Also used PRP with ECM.
He is also provided with ECM to apply for 3 days on his donor and recipient.
All the implanted follicles are seen intact and visible at the recipient on day 1.
He has a birth mark at the donor area from where 10 grafts were plucked to monitor the donor regeneration.
Because of previous HST procedure 1 year ago, white FUE like dots with no hair regeneration can be seen on his donor scalp at many places. Specially around his birth mark at the donor area the density is less as compared to the picture posted by moopooko on day 1 of his last years procedure done by HST wherein HST had difficulty harvesting his grafts around his birth mark.
You can also ask about poor regrowth after HST at the recipient to Neversaynever.
Since he had done 1200 graft HST last year, he can compare our results with Dr. Gho's.
Donor regeneration will be 100%, I have no doubt about it. We all have to watch the % plucked hair with stem cells recipient regeneration. I will not be surprised if he may have more than implanted hair growth due to stem cell and DP cell injection at the donor and recipient area.
I will post video microscopic pics tomorrow. Rest of the pics from day 2 has to be posted by Neversaynever. Because of ECM application on his donor and recipient, he may take few days to post his pics once he can wash off the ECM tomorrow from the scalp.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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drnigam
19.03.2013, 19:10
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Dear ALL,
It was great to receive a knowledgeable and senior forum member NEVERSAYNEVER at my clinic at Mumbai. We advised him to do patch test for our new technique of plucked hair implant with stem cells and DP cells. But he decided to go for 2000 grafts. But with whatever available time we could get to loosened the FU with 0.7 mm hollow needle (will use 0.4 mm hollow needle for his rest of the 1000 FU on his next visit)and pluck 1028 FU from the donor scalp(the plucked hair contained 3/4th follicle with bulge stem cells and part of outer root sheath and surrounding tissue)and implanted the same at the recipient temples and partly at the hair line. 276 follicles were converted from double follicular unit to single follicle for the hair line. So total he received 1028+276=1304 follicles at the recipient temples. The donor FU are intact with its blood supply and we can already see few grafts regenerating on day 1 at the donor.
Both at the donor and the recipient areas also received activated progenitor stem cells, isolated DP cells from the follicles extracted from the chest (we did not wanted to waste donor scalp grafts for stem cell and DP cell isolation).
Both the donor and the recipient scalp also received 6 growth factors to boost the follicles and were soaked for few minutes in the preservation media. Also used PRP with ECM.
He is also provided with ECM to apply for 3 days on his donor and recipient.
All the implanted follicles are seen intact and visible at the recipient on day 1.
He has a birth mark at the donor area from where 10 grafts were plucked to monitor the donor regeneration.
Because of previous HST procedure 1 year ago, white FUE like dots with no hair regeneration can be seen on his donor scalp at many places. Specially around his birth mark at the donor area the density is less as compared to the picture posted by moopooko on day 1 of his last years procedure done by HST wherein HST had difficulty harvesting his grafts around his birth mark.
You can also ask about poor regrowth after HST at the recipient to Neversaynever.
Since he had done 1200 graft HST last year, he can compare our results with Dr. Gho's.
Donor regeneration will be 100%, I have no doubt about it. We all have to watch the % plucked hair with stem cells recipient regeneration. I will not be surprised if he may have more than implanted hair growth due to stem cell and DP cell injection at the donor and recipient area.
I will post video microscopic pics tomorrow. Rest of the pics from day 2 has to be posted by Neversaynever. Because of ECM application on his donor and recipient, he may take few days to post his pics once he can wash off the ECM tomorrow from the scalp.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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moopookoo
19.03.2013, 23:01
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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can moderator resize photos without losing quality, its taking ages to load the page
dr nigam/neversaynvr
can you mark the area where gho implanted 1200 grafts,
curious about yield
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gc83uk
20.03.2013, 01:05
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Hello Dr Nigam,
Glad to see your progress is coming along with our good friend Neversaynever.
I have a few issues I would like to raise which I would appreciate a direct response in the same order as below, before we talk about the specifics of what you have done here.
2) I think it would be advisable for you to upload these photos in their original size on a file sharing website and link to the photos from here. Two reasons for this, 1) the page is talking a YEARS to load and 2) I would like to open the original photo and zoom in etc.
3) Your references to Hasc, first of all it's Hasci. I don't understand where these white HST scars are? This is why I want to see the original photos. I personally believe your mixing up 'Hairless gaps' vs actual 'FUE White spots'. There is a HUGE difference between a hairloss spot and an actual white spot. If you can direct me to the exact photo that shows these 'scars', I'd be very interested to see them.
4) The talk of the 'Swelling' at Hasci. I have never, not even once heard anybody say they had swelling. I've now had 3000 HST grafts and I have never had any pain or swelling. I understand all patients are different and perhaps 'Neversaynever' was unlucky with his HST procedure, but it must be said it's not the same for all as you have said above.
Thank you once again and also thank you for your invitation to visit your clinic.
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moopookoo
20.03.2013, 06:58
@ gc83uk
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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good post Gc
I dont see FUE like white dots but i see more thn usual number of hairless gaps for someone who had only 1200 hst grafts...think GCs donor looks better after 3000
Neversayneve pls respond
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James Bond
20.03.2013, 07:38
@ hairman2
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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» from your post i have some serious concerns as to whether your interest is
» to to prove your own technique or rather to discredit Dr. Gho's technique.
» Your comparative advertising is a bit disconcerting.
I agree. Nigam appears to be more concerned about proving his procedure by comparing it to Gho's work (which he has never been provided the details about) than he is concerned about proving his own work based on the merit of his own work. It's especially troubling that Nigam is using a variation of Gho's early research, and claiming he has a better and superior procedure than Gho is capable of realizing.
Whether he will admit it or not, a bitterness emerges in Nigam's writings towards Gho. Even if Nigam's results turn out to be meaningful, I can see no reason why he is so disrepectful of Gho, who is one of the early pioneers of the research Nigam claims to be performing. If anything, I would think he would be thankful toward Gho and speak kindly of his research that paved the way for others to follow and improve upon.
So far, I've seen a bunch of blurry photos from Nigam that don't demonstrate anything. All the while, he stands back and throws darts at Gho claiming that peer-reviewed studies are not as meaningful as blurry photos posted to news groups.
Is there anything out there showing whether Nigam's technique works well enough to have risked performing this technique in mass? It seems to me to be a grand experiment. I perceive he is playing with a high risk-reward ratio at the potential risk of his patients. I really hope I am wrong here.
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neversaynever
20.03.2013, 08:49
@ moopookoo
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Disapointed this has become another Gho discussion.
I have no desire to discuss Hasci or discredit Ghos HST technique. I don't see scarring but there are hairless gaps. Given that we can not prove anything at this point I think the Gho discussion is irrelevant.
I will clarify my experience with Hasci, and hopefully we can move on from it.
1. Very difficult extraction for them. 1200 grafts total.
2. Decent yield, nothing spectacular. Roughly 70%.
3. Many many many failed extractions left my donor very sore.
4. I am neither unhappy nor elated with HASCI
5. Yes I had alot of swelling. My forehead increased in size by some 2cm.
All other forum HST patients are 100% satisfied, so my case is just unique. No clinic has 100% satisfactory rate, so I can take that on the chin and move on.
Gho has been debated for years now, years people. It took a long long time before we saw any form of further proof (which has only come from forum members and some results from celebrities). I hope this thread stays sane. My progress photos are coming very soon.
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thehairman
20.03.2013, 09:47
@ neversaynever
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by neversaynever
I totally agree, it's disapointing to see Dr. Nigam trying so hard to madket his technique by bashing Gho everywhere.
Anyways, let's get back to topic. I know you always shave your head 0 guard, so how can you still do that with all those extractions by .7 mm ? as we know this size of needle will definitely leaves white dots in the donor.
thehairman is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO---
AKA Aim4hair
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neversaynever
20.03.2013, 10:14
@ thehairman
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Scars only if theres no donor regeneration. But with the use of prp, ECM scarring 'should' be far less an issue.
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hairman2
20.03.2013, 10:48
@ neversaynever
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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How was your personal overall experience with Dr. Nigam and his clinic?
Are you still traveling or are you back home yet?
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drnigam
20.03.2013, 15:20
@ hairman2
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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hairmann,Let me clear we use hollow needle with inner diametre 0.6mm and outer diametre 0.7mm.
We do not use fue machine to drill deep into the dermis -subcutaneous junction to extract a graft.For hair plucking we only go 1mm deep at the donor to loosen the graft and than just pluck it out with fine forcep putting sufficient force to break the follicle at the lower half(as you are aware the length of the follicle from the skin surface to the root in the dermis is on the avg.4.12mm and the bulge stemcells are from 1mm to 1.8mm ),so on the safer side we want atleast 2.5mm to3 mm of the follicle as the plucked graft.
Gradually we will even reduce the hollow needle size to .3mm to.4mm inner diametre.
Hollow needle is only to loosen the graft superficially and not to dig inside upto4mm at the dermis to extract the graft,superficial epidermal wounds do not give marks or scars.
Not to forget the 3 day use of ecm on the recipient and the donor for wound healing.And there is no multiple drilling for extraction of one graft.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
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drnigam
20.03.2013, 15:27
(edited by drnigam, 30.03.2013, 00:39)
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Jarjar you can mail me at dr.rahul1970@gmail.com for your querry on finding out details of clinical trials acceptance in india of the same conducted by a research company outside india.
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James Bond
20.03.2013, 15:42
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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I'm confused. Your description of the technique you used is that of Gho's old "Follicles Multiplication," which leaves the lower third in the skin and regenerates the upper third when implanted into the recipient area. Previously, you made the point that your technique consisted of extracting the entire follicle, carefully transecting, injecting stem cells into the extraneous tissue, and then re-implanting both halves into the recipient area. When you explained this technique, you appeared to be very critical of methods that leave a portion of the follicle in the donor to regenerate, and you claimed this is unnecessary, and results in a lower yield do to being a "blind" transection.
Can you clarify whether you have several different hair multiplication procedures that you use, and can you provide some insight into why you would choose one over another for a particular patient?
Have you previously performed this technique in patients?
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drnigam
20.03.2013, 16:38
@ James Bond
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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JAMES BOND,
You are right at present i offer 3 different techniques-
1) HAIR MULTIPLICATION OF EPITHELIAL AND DERMAL STEMCELLS (+dp culture in next 2months)
2) HAIR OR DONOR DOUBLING WITH IN VITRO TRANSVERSE BISECTION OF GRAFTS UNDER MAGNIFICATION AND IMPLANTATION EITHER AT RECIPIENT OR DONOR AND RECIPIENT(in this technique also we add prp,ecm,progenitor stemcells,dp cells,growth factors).
Advantage of this technique is higher yield but some patients do not want extraction of grafts by fue even for doubling.I am doing this technique with upto5000grafts doubled to 10000 grafts .Tomorrow i am completing the 5000 grafts to 10000 on a dermatologist's scalp with whom neversay also was witness on phone,wherin the patient was happy with his donor and recipient.
3)DONOR DOUBLING WITH EXTRACTION BY PLUCKING and ADDITION OF STEMCELLS,ECM,DP CELLS AND PRP AND GROWTH FACTORS.(for those who do not want extraction but prefer plucking and svae donor scalp.)
I have done 3 patients earlier this month with extraction of donor graft by loosening the graft by hollow needle(.6mm inner diametre) digging not more than 1mm deep and plucking the graft with fine forcep to get atleast 2.5mm to3mm graft from the skin surface.We monitor under magnification what we are plucking out.We also keep one extracted graft by fue from donor scalp for reference.
Yes this is a blind technique but only has an advantage for those patients who do not want to extract graft even for doubling, by fue punch.
It also has an advantage like dr gho's technique that the lower 1/4th part of graft with dermal papilla is still intact with its blood supply hence donor regeneration will be 100% but recipient regeneration may be less than 100% or around 95%with addition of our stuff ,at present all the 4 patients have shown 100 recipient regeneration but i can confirm the exact %regeneration after 30 days of followup.For this technique i am mostly doing patch test for one month.
4)i will be working on the first patient in vitro hair trippling with patch test next week.
Over a period of 2 months i can demonstrate and analyze the exact different yields at recipient and donor with different techniques.
I had asked neversaynever to go for patch test but since he came all the way from uk ,he wanted to implant much more grafts.
He got confidence may be after he saw and spoke to the patients at the clinic wherein he saw successful30% regrowth on slick bald scalp after pure HM in just 6 weeks and also hair doubling 2500 doubling to 5000grafts by plucking which i did on a dermatologist from delhi.
James bond ,sorry to say but i was little disappointed with your last post wherein you said i am trying to discredit anyone.
It's not true, i respect jahoda,gho and others on who's research work i am working further ,but do not misunderstanda critical analysis of someone's work is different from personal criticism which i am never into.
BTW ,please let me know according to you what is hst's new technique.
I can challenge anyone who says HST is into invivo multiplication of hair follicles,same is the view of umar,bernstien,cole and many other top HT doctors in the world as told to me by moopookoo, an another senior forum member.
Let the hst or their well wishers prove us wrong and we will gladly accept personal discredit and follow hst.
I am here at the forum for furthering research by debate and critical analyses.
And why me or any other doctor should get affected by appreciation or criticism of their technique,it's an evolving science,this is the only way we can improve.
Originally Posted by James Bond
» old "Follicles Multiplication," which leaves the lower third in the skin
» and regenerates the upper third when implanted into the recipient area.
» Previously, you made the point that your technique consisted of extracting
» the entire follicle, carefully transecting, injecting stem cells into the
» extraneous tissue, and then re-implanting both halves into the recipient
» area. When you explained this technique, you appeared to be very critical
» of methods that leave a portion of the follicle in the donor to regenerate,
» and you claimed this is unnecessary, and results in a lower yield do to
» being a "blind" transection.
»
» Can you clarify whether you have several different hair multiplication
» procedures that you use, and can you provide some insight into why you
» would choose one over another for a particular patient?
»
» Have you previously performed this technique in patients?
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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|
ColinM
20.03.2013, 16:43
@ James Bond
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
James please can you share your pictures of your gho procedure that would be great for all the posters on the forum.
ColinM is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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drnigam
20.03.2013, 17:11
@ gc83uk
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
GC,
2)I will give you the link on my site to view under zoom.Or i will need to buy space at sendspace.com and the upload the pics on the same.
3)I think you will be a better judge to evaluate the white marks after you see the zoomed pics.Both I and moopookoo were of the view that the donor has thinned out and there were few bigger white dots whithout follilce when we compared with the last years pic of neversaynever posted by moopookoo of day1 after hst.ESpecially his scalp around birth mark at the donor.
4)I agree with you any medical procedure may have complications with few patients.Even in traditional fue /fut some patients have swelling over the eyes and face,If you would have asked i wouls have disclosed how we avoid the same,so that not a single patient suffers this discomfort.
You are important as is neversaynever ,because you have set the STANDARD in THE DIGITAL documentation in the hairloss industry.
Originally Posted by gc83uk
»
» Glad to see your progress is coming along with our good friend
» Neversaynever.
»
» I have a few issues I would like to raise which I would appreciate a direct
» response in the same order as below, before we talk about the specifics of
» what you have done here.
»
» 1) Are you no longer able to post on the TBT forum? I would appreciate you
» opening a thread over there as it's much easier/loads quicker and 10X as
» many users which you can engage and talk with.
»
» 2) I think it would be advisable for you to upload these photos in their
» original size on a file sharing website and link to the photos from here.
» Two reasons for this, 1) the page is talking a YEARS to load and 2) I would
» like to open the original photo and zoom in etc.
»
» 3) Your references to Hasc, first of all it's Hasci. I don't understand
» where these white HST scars are? This is why I want to see the original
» photos. I personally believe your mixing up 'Hairless gaps' vs actual 'FUE
» White spots'. There is a HUGE difference between a hairloss spot and an
» actual white spot. If you can direct me to the exact photo that shows these
» 'scars', I'd be very interested to see them.
»
» 4) The talk of the 'Swelling' at Hasci. I have never, not even once heard
» anybody say they had swelling. I've now had 3000 HST grafts and I have
» never had any pain or swelling. I understand all patients are different and
» perhaps 'Neversaynever' was unlucky with his HST procedure, but it must be
» said it's not the same for all as you have said above.
»
» Thank you once again and also thank you for your invitation to visit your
» clinic.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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|
James Bond
21.03.2013, 03:47
@ ColinM
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Originally Posted by ColinM
» be great for all the posters on the forum.
I've never had a Gho procedure (or any sort of hair procedure other than a hair cut), but I have interviewed Gho about his various hair multiplication techniques. I've also corresponded with him and asked him numerous questions over the years.
Dr. Nigam would get a lot more credibility by using a more scientific-based approach to his research as opposed to simply making a bunch of claims, posting some blurry photos, and then attacking his competition based on his "3rd party" understanding of what his competition is doing. He admits that his claims are based on what other people have told him, and he has no direct understanding of what his competition is actually doing. Yet, he assures us he has superior techniques to what they have.
I explained to Dr. Nigam how FM is performed, and Nigam emphasized that FM is inferior to his method of total follicle extraction, because FM relies on a blind extraction technique. Then, a few weeks later, he flies a patient in and performs a full FM procedure on him and claims he's certain the patient will get 100% regrowth in both the donor and the recipient. This is in conflict with a 3rd party research team who tested the extraction method and reported 72% donor regrowth.
I need to see the exact grafts that were extracted from NeverSayNever's donor. His procedure was fully photo-documented. I am asking Dr. Nigam to post photos of the extracted grafts for my analysis.
James Bond is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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drnigam
21.03.2013, 05:22
@ drnigam
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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James Bond ,
kindly find below as requested by you, the pics of plucked grafts , you can also note in one pic an fue graft with root for reference.
I still believe the in vitro technique is better for hair yield,but plucking is the option for those patients who do not want to drill deep upto dermis to extract a complete graft for invitro dissection,fearing fue white dot marks.
And why i showed interest in hair doubling over pure HM at present is because i am still not ready with my dp culture and dp implant.
The partial bisected follicle is utilized as proto hair for activated/multiplied stemcells to interact and repair the bisected follicles.
I would appreciate, since you have thoroughly interviewed hst as mentioned in your last post,wherein you mentioned follicular multiplication.Please enlighten us scientifically so that all the hairloss sufferers including me can benefit.
drnigam has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
drnigam is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
Post reply
|
Tom Vercetti
France,
21.03.2013, 12:13
@ James Bond
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
James bond,
The answer seems to be easy: dr Gho does nothing after taking the 2/3 of the hair follicule at the donor area.. It comes back naturally by about 72%.
Dr Nigam, inject a perfect "coktail" in the donor, that guarantee him to be around 100% regrowth. Here is the difference.
Dr Gho patent is only in the part after the extraction process, he put it in a non saline solution that boost the stem cells and then inject it in recipient. That's why he can with more or less success, get a technique that is a FUE V2.0 but which give less in term of density than FUE (because no 1 for 1 but a "2/3 + little boost" gives at the recipient.
Maybe I'm wrong but this is what I understood, and I try to be the more objectiv as possible on this. Dr Gho gives a big improvment in FUE, we just have to look at the football player Sneidjer to see it. I don't think Dr Nigam has a problem with that
Tom Vercetti is located in FRANCE and he is available to meet: NO
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hairman2
21.03.2013, 13:02
@ Tom Vercetti
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by Tom Vercetti
» around 100% regrowth. Here is the difference.
No Dr Nigam claims to be injecting a "perfect cocktail" in the donor area. We have yet to see substantial proof of the same. Anyone can make such a claim. Simply sticking the words "growth factor" to a syringe does not really do it for me. I still am awaiting something like proper photo documentation or independent hair count assessments (i.e. scientifically viable proof)
Originally Posted by Tom Vercetti
» in a non saline solution that boost the stem cells and then inject it in
» recipient. That's why he can with more or less success, get a technique
» that is a FUE V2.0 but which give less in term of density than FUE (because
» no 1 for 1 but a "2/3 + little boost" gives at the recipient.
what are you talking about 2/3 + little boost?
hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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Skywalker
The Corridor of Uncertainty,
21.03.2013, 15:09
@ James Bond
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
»
» Dr. Nigam would get a lot more credibility by using a more scientific-based
» approach to his research as opposed to simply making a bunch of claims,
» posting some blurry photos, and then attacking his competition based on his
» "3rd party" understanding of what his competition is doing. He admits that
» his claims are based on what other people have told him, and he has no
» direct understanding of what his competition is actually doing. Yet, he
» assures us he has superior techniques to what they have.
»
JB is right as usual, Dr Nigam may or may not be able to do what he claims - but at the moment it is all extremely 'woolly'. I wish him luck but right now I don't see how his work can be compared to what Dr Gho has shown with HST.
I should add that I still think Dr Gho's marketing has been completely incompetent, but that's just marketing, the evidence that his procedure ACTUALLY WORKS is much stronger.
Skywalker is located in THE CORRIDOR OF UNCERTAINTY and he is available to meet: NO
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James Bond
22.03.2013, 03:29
@ drnigam
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
» kindly find below as requested by you, the pics of plucked grafts , you can
» also note in one pic an fue graft with root for reference.
If I'm not mistaken, that's just a single graft taken during NeverSayNever's procedure. I really need to see all of the grafts together just prior to implantation into the recipient.
Here is a link to an interview I did with Gho years ago. I've interviewed most of the major HM researchers over the years, but most of these interviews went unpublished.
http://baldnessbattlers.com/JBInterviewGho.htm
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neversaynever
22.03.2013, 10:50
@ James Bond
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Sorry, but if the presentation of evidence by Gho has been so strong why has he been the topic of debate for 2-3 years now? Not just with us, but with other docs too. With interviews, peer reviewed studies, some photos of regrowth, celebrity work, so many people still didnt have the visual proof they were seeking. Im one of those, it took over a year for me to decide on HST, and even then i felt i was taking a risk. So why if Gho has presented such strong evidence? Why are GC, ironman and others putting great effort into documenting their cases themselves? Because gho hasnt provided enough proof...simple. Nigam is willing to provide any evidence that we request, no other doctor on earth would be so accomadating. Slowly he's getting there. I say slowly, but he's actually progressing quite quickly in comparison to so many other docs. Sure we're not 100% certain, but I think its exciting that hes openly trying and discussing things with us. No cloak and dagger BS.
I dont doubt Gho at all, but I think everyones being a bit harsh on Dr Nigam who is making a genuine effort to provide a Gho alternative. I think its about time someone tried? Its not rocket science. And HASCI are expensive guys!
I agree that sometimes the tone of his posts are questionable, and he made a very very bad start in these forums, but after meeting him it all makes sense. He's an eccentric, full of energy, and not the reserved type. Very very open about things. The indian market is not web driven at all. He's trying hard to play middle man for many researchers who might want to put their theories to the test in india. I believe this approach is desperately needed, rather than different researchers and transplant doctors all hiding behind their desks releasing study after study, photo after photo, but still not providing any new procedures.
Gho is a researcher, Nigam is not really a researcher. Nigam is trying to put other studies into action and doing so openly.
During my procedure i got to see everything, I could stop and ask anything, I was shown DP cells being extracted from follicles under a microscope. Was a good experience, if not a long one. I have nothing negative to say really. I think for a western customer base some minor things need to change, but I could tell Dr Nigam and he would probably address it in due time.
Im a bit stuck documenting my case, been traveling around, this was unplanned so my camera is not the greatest and now have to get back to London in an emergency. But I wont let the thread go to waste, ill update on everything whether positive or negative.
I have alot of 2 hair follicles implanted, so I dont believe hes splitting units up to deceive anyone (just in case anyones thinking that).
I really hope it works, because Ill keep going back until im happy with my head. Cant afford to do that with HASCI tbh.
Dr Nigam is not there yet, but bit by bit he's moving forward. What other news do we have to talk about right now? Forget scientific publications, I want to see action. These publications have been talked about for many many many years now. I personally dont see what is so complicated about what Gho is doing.
neversaynever is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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|
hairman2
22.03.2013, 11:25
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Dear Neversaynever,
I think that is a really great and genuine post. Personally, I think you may certainly be right that people have been too harsh on Dr Nigam (including myself). He is actually going through great efforts to get his stuff documented and provide transparency. Further, as you correctly said, comparatively, his progress is moving at lightening speed for the standards of the hair loss industry. I sincerely hope his open mindedness and efforts pay off in due course. It would certainly be to the benefit of us all.
I agree that HST is overpriced, but do take some issue from the fact that you think scientific publications are worthless. I truly believe that sooner or later Dr. Nigam will have to publish a scientific paper with real figures and hair counts, before his method will be widely accepted or even regarded by public and expert opinion. However, for now I think during his preliminary experimental work, his photographic documentation has been rapidly improving and should serve to get an impression of the merits of his technique.
Dr. Nigam, if you are reading this post, then please accept my apologies if anything that I have said in the past has offended you. As neversaynever correctly pointed out you did have quite a rough start on this forum and it has taken time and effort to gain trust. We are all keeping our fingers crossed that someone like you could finally bring a change to the HT industry and offer us some new, viable solutions to hair loss sufferers. Don't let us down 
regards,
hairman2
Originally Posted by neversaynever
» has he been the topic of debate for 2-3 years now? Not just with us, but
» with other docs too. With interviews, peer reviewed studies, some photos of
» regrowth, celebrity work, so many people still didnt have the visual proof
» they were seeking. Im one of those, it took over a year for me to decide on
» HST, and even then i felt i was taking a risk. So why if Gho has presented
» such strong evidence? Why are GC, ironman and others putting great effort
» into documenting their cases themselves? Because gho hasnt provided enough
» proof...simple. Nigam is willing to provide any evidence that we request,
» no other doctor on earth would be so accomadating. Slowly he's getting
» there. I say slowly, but he's actually progressing quite quickly in
» comparison to so many other docs. Sure we're not 100% certain, but I think
» its exciting that hes openly trying and discussing things with us. No cloak
» and dagger BS.
»
» [...]
»
» Dr Nigam is not there yet, but bit by bit he's moving forward. What other
» news do we have to talk about right now? Forget scientific publications,
» I want to see action. These publications have been talked about for many
» many many years now. I personally dont see what is so complicated about
» what Gho is doing.
hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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neversaynever
22.03.2013, 12:21
@ hairman2
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Publications are priceless. There is no progress without them. I don't think they're worthless at all. All these researchers reference each others work and the hope is always that eventually enough information will be gathered to put forward a new treatment (still waiting!)
However, I don't see how it is useful for this donor doubling technique. If we are to believe the findings of Dr Gho and Jahoda, then Dr Nigam is taking their research and trying to show results from it. Dr Gho released his findings and no other doctor has said they accept it, or even that they've tested it. It's quite simple what he's doing. He hasn't been widely accepted. In fact the only thing that convinced me was GCs forum pictures and the result of a court case which ruled in Ghos favour.
I do agree that cases need to be put forward more scientifically though. A group of 8 patch tests each consisting of upto 100 follicles on slick bald areas should suffice. That would give us clear hair counts and if harvested with a tattoo marker should give us regeneration rate. Its early days. Fingers crossed.
The bigger issue is of course HM and hair germs. I met a HM patient who saw some results, but its all very limited for now, and kind of pot luck if you show results. This is all very unorthodox, but after years of talking, this guy might shake things up a bit. I dont think I can take another Dr Cots publication 
neversaynever is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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Skywalker
The Corridor of Uncertainty,
22.03.2013, 16:35
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
NeverSayNever,
I am very grateful for what you have done, you have certainly tried to move things forward.
With regard to Dr Nigam, I don't think he should be putting Dr Gho down, I don't see how his posts could be read any other way. I am hopeful about him and reall wish him well, but I am also sceptical - and in this business I think with good reason. If he succeeds we all benefit - so here's hoping.
With regard to evidence for HST, I think it is strong now, but that is partly due to IronMan and GC83UK and others. As I said before clearly Dr Gho does not know how to sell his product, he is fundamentally a talented researcher, not a salesman at all.
Skywalker is located in THE CORRIDOR OF UNCERTAINTY and he is available to meet: NO
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neversaynever
22.03.2013, 16:57
@ Skywalker
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Pitting himself against Gho was definately not the right move.
On another note, Im really paranoid I might have done damage to my new grafts. All the bumpy roads, long journeys, heat, cap wearing. Hmmm. Hope its ok. Facing another long long journey back to London tomorow.
neversaynever is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Post reply
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hairman2
22.03.2013, 17:15
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
yea dude, I really don't think it is smart to be combining adventurous journeys with a hair transplant. If I were you, I would get a hotel room with an AC and stay put until my flight back home.
Anyway.. your grafts are probably fine.. but still don't take risks man
Originally Posted by neversaynever
»
» On another note, Im really paranoid I might have done damage to my new
» grafts. All the bumpy roads, long journeys, heat, cap wearing. Hmmm. Hope
» its ok. Facing another long long journey back to London tomorow.
hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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|
thehairman
22.03.2013, 17:52
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Neversaynever,
Appreciate your feedback and detailed replies.
Do you have any concerns regarding the safety of this procedure ? Imnot sure how dr. Nigam operates but is the things he enject the scalp with safe ? Were they tested before or approved by official authority i. India like the FDA in the states ?
thehairman is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
AKA Aim4hair
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Skywalker
The Corridor of Uncertainty,
22.03.2013, 19:29
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
NeverSayNever,
the grafts will be pretty sturdy, I think it highly unlikely that you will have done any harm.
Good luck on your return journey 
Skywalker is located in THE CORRIDOR OF UNCERTAINTY and he is available to meet: NO
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Arashi
23.03.2013, 09:28
@ Skywalker
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Just want to add to the thread that I'd rate my pain level at Gho as 2-3 on a scale of 10. Barely no swelling at all, maybe my eyes were slightly puffy for a few days but nothing anyone would notice.
I've never heard of huge swelling or pain at Gho ...
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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thehairman
23.03.2013, 10:06
@ Arashi
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Originally Posted by Arashi
» a scale of 10. Barely no swelling at all, maybe my eyes were slightly puffy
» for a few days but nothing anyone would notice.
»
» I've never heard of huge swelling or pain at Gho ...
I also didn't have any swelling at all.
thehairman is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO---
AKA Aim4hair
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neversaynever
23.03.2013, 12:03
@ thehairman
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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He only injected DP cells isolated from my body hair, prp from my own blood, and maybe 'activated stem cells', which are cells taken from my body or scalp hair. Those things wouldnt require FDA clearance, so I didn't have any worries. He didnt inject growth factors or anything like that. In terms of safety and hygiene, I had no worries. Everyone was wearing gloves, and I was watching very carefully!
I wouldnt allow injection of cultured DP cells at the current time. Until I'm sure it is safe (from Nigam, aderans or anyone else). But thats just me.
In regards to my swelling with HASCI procedure, I got bit on my forehead yesterday by some kind of funky insect and the swelling is huge. So maybe I'm just a sweller
Plus I think hasci over did it with the injections to numb my scalp because it kept fading away (possibly because Im a smoker?). Really should quit.
Got a 6 hour cab ride followed by 9 hour flight now, fun! I have a usb microscope at home so there will be some clear macro shots of the birth mark area on my donor very soon, and plenty of macro shots all round the scabs.
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thehairman
23.03.2013, 20:07
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Thanks for the info mate, you are one of the well-informed ppl on this forum and im sure ppl are looking forward to following your progress.
Wish you the best of luck!
thehairman is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
AKA Aim4hair
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Arashi
23.03.2013, 20:50
@ thehairman
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Dr Nigam, if you claim to have 100% donor regrowht, can you please post the pre-op photo's ? Without them we can of course not verify if 2 hair grafts grow back as 2 hairs etc.
It's interesting to see all this but I have VERY VERY high doubts you will be able to demonstrate 100% regrowth.
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 03:31
@ neversaynever
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
Originally Posted by neversaynever
» microscope at home so there will be some clear macro shots of the birth
» mark area on my donor very soon, and plenty of macro shots all round the
» scabs.
Nice ! But please make shots of the entire area, not just of the few grafts taken around the birth mark. If I wanted to fake success, I'd just extract the hairs at that birthmark site and leave the follicles there intact, so it would guarantee regrowth. Not saying Dr Nigam is doing that, but with the whole history of his photohopping etc we just need to be very cautious here.
I WANT to believe this doctor but common sense just tells me that regrowth can't be anywhere near 100%. If Gho, the inventor of the procedure, reaches around 80% after years and years of research, this guy who comes out of nowhere not only clones the procedure but reaches 100% regrowth ? That just sounds very, very weird to me. But again, I WANT to believe him, since 100% regrowth would be a HUGE thing. Hair cloning without loss in the donor, that's what we all want
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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roger_that
MARYLAND,
24.03.2013, 14:21
(edited by roger_that, 24.03.2013, 15:04)
@ James Bond
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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» I agree. Nigam appears to be more concerned about proving his procedure by
» comparing it to Gho's work (which he has never been provided the details
» about) than he is concerned about proving his own work based on the merit
» of his own work. It's especially troubling that Nigam is using a variation
» of Gho's early research, and claiming he has a better and superior
» procedure than Gho is capable of realizing.
Are you aware that when Dr. Gho started his early research in the 90's, and was openly claiming to be using stem cells in his HM research back then (this claim was all over his literature, patents, etc.), the very "stem cell" experiments and treatments he openly claimed to be doing at that time were illegal in Europe?
So, either he wasn't really using stem cells, or he was violating the law.
At first I thought it was because he wasn't really using stem cells, and was just claiming to be doing so (and actually using stem-like, partially differentiated cells). In other words, just stretching the truth a bit and calling a stem-like cell a "stem cell", for publicity reasons -- because despite the fact that in most instances experimenting with stem cells was illegal, most people actually didn't know that, and "stem cells" was still a "hot" topic with the public and would draw attention.
Then it dawned on me that he probably was using real stem cells, and was just unconcerned that may have been violating Dutch law.
I think that's why his financing deal with ABN-AMRO fell apart and he lost ownership of the original GHO Clinics (and why he started a new clinic, Hasci, developing completely new procedures).
At some point his investors realized what he was doing was legally impossible under Dutch/European law without going through a massive and expensive effort to change the law or apply for an exemption or permit.
This meant that he could derive no revenue from what he was claiming was "HM".
It's also the most likely reason that we never saw any real, tangible or impressive HM results from Dr. Gho, which in any way matched up with his claims.
I'm not saying Dr. Gho's ideas are bad or wrong. He is certainly the true scientific pioneer of HM. So please don't get defensive that I'm "attacking" Dr. Gho.
But if you look at Dr. Nigam's website FAQ on HM, you'll find this bit:
"At present in US, Europe and other major countries only first stage of stem cell activation is legal, neither I, neither Dr. Roland, neither Dr. Gho and Andrens Research group (who can do cell multiplication and culture at their clinical trial locations at US) can do cell culture and hair multiplication legally as per the norms. Only in India and Cyprus stem cell regulations are little different hence I can do activation and two cycles of hair multiplication and have been cleared for the same by independent stem cell ethics committee in India, You cannot do hair multiplication unless you have cleared human clinical trials from the regulating authority of respective country."
Dr. Nigam is saying that if he were working in the US or Europe or most other major countries other than India, he would not be able to do the same work he's doing right now in India, i.e., "activation and two cycles of hair multiplication".
What do you make of that?
roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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|
Arashi
24.03.2013, 14:47
@ roger_that
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by roger_that
I doubt Gho's work ever been illegal. He just transplants part of the graft including tissue containing the stem cells to repair the grafts. What would be illegal about that ?
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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roger_that
MARYLAND,
24.03.2013, 14:54
@ Arashi
|
Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
|
» I doubt Gho's work ever been illegal. He just transplants part of the graft
» including tissue containing the stem cells to repair the grafts. What would
» be illegal about that ?[/div]
Arashi:
I'm not talking about Dr. Gho's current technique, HST. You are correct about his current technique.
I'm talking about the techniques he was developing and touting in the mid-late 1990's, which he called simply "Hair Multiplication", where he claimed to be activating and multiplying (culturing) various cells including stem cells.
That's the technique I claim was most likely violating the law in the Netherlands and the EU, if he were doing it.
As far as I know, at that time (and to a large extent, even now), it was completely prohibited to do anything like that with stem cells, period, in the EU and the USA, and most if not all other major Western countries, unless you had a very high-level academic research permit. A small, for-profit hair transplant clinic was very unlikely to be able to get such permission.
In the current technique, HST, he gives it a name "Hair Stemcell Transplantation" but he's not actually culturing stem cells, he's just moving them along with part of the follicle.
roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 15:07
@ roger_that
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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I didn't know dr Gho has been working on stem cell multiplication. How do you know about that ? Nor am I a lawyer and I'm unaware of past changes in the Dutch law regarding stem cell multiplication, but I'll just take your word for it.
But not sure what your point is here ? That he's done something illegal in the past ? If that's you're point, it certainly would be interesting, but I suggest you post proof of it. But then again, I suggest you start a new thread, I don't see the relevance to THIS thread here ?!?
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 15:11
@ roger_that
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by roger_that
» Transplantation" but he's not actually culturing stem cells, he's just
» moving them along with part of the follicle.
Yes, he gives it the name "hair stem cell transplantation" and that's EXACTLY what he does. The stem cells are being activated by the wounded graft and induced by the wound to regenerate both parts of the graft. Your point is ?
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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roger_that
MARYLAND,
24.03.2013, 15:15
@ Arashi
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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» » In the current technique, HST, he gives it a name "Hair Stemcell
» » Transplantation" but he's not actually culturing stem cells, he's just
» » moving them along with part of the follicle.[/div]
»
» Yes, he gives it the name "hair stem cell transplantation" and that's
» EXACTLY what he does. The stem cells are being activated by the wounded
» graft and induced by the wound to regenerate both parts of the graft. Your
» point is ?[/div]
Right, but again I'm not saying that part is illegal. It's not illegal, it's very legal.
It's only illegal (barring a high-level academic permit) to separate stem cells or culture them. Please read Dr. Nigam's FAQ on Hair Multiplication.
Also, use some common sense, if you have any.
roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 15:16
@ roger_that
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by roger_that
» » » Transplantation" but he's not actually culturing stem cells, he's just
» » » moving them along with part of the follicle.
» »
» » Yes, he gives it the name "hair stem cell transplantation" and that's
» » EXACTLY what he does. The stem cells are being activated by the wounded
» » graft and induced by the wound to regenerate both parts of the graft.
» Your
» » point is ?[/div]
»
» Right, but again I'm not saying that part is illegal. It's not illegal,
» it's very legal.
»
» It's only illegal (barring a high-level academic permit) to separate stem
» cells or culture them. Please read Dr. Nigam's FAQ on Hair
» Multiplication.
»
» Also, use some common sense, if you have any.[/div]
Hehe. Maybe it's my lack of 'common sense' but I still miss your point. What are you trying to say ?
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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roger_that
MARYLAND,
24.03.2013, 15:23
@ Arashi
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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» Hehe. Maybe it's my lack of 'common sense' but I still miss your point.
» What are you trying to say ?
I hate having to repeat myself again and again. What I am saying is that if Dr. Gho was actually culturing and multiplying human stem cells as part of his "Hair Multiplication" back in the 1990s, and if he didn't have a very high level clearance from the government which is normally only granted to illustrious university academics, then in my opinion, he may have been violating the law.
Please note that I'm not saying for certain that he was doing any of this. He may have just been talking about it and making claims in his literature about it. If he never actually did any of it, he wouldn't have been violating the law. But he was certainly making a lot of claims involving stem cells. Not just moving them around on a follicle, as he's doing now, but culturing them and multiplying them and injecting them into people's scalps.
Since we never saw any clinical results from the GHO Clinic of people with substantial new hair from HM, that would indicate that he may have stopped just short of actually doing it.
roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 15:25
@ roger_that
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Originally Posted by roger_that
» » What are you trying to say ?
»
» I hate having to repeat myself again and again. What I am saying is that
» if Dr. Gho was actually culturing and multiplying human stem cells as part
» of his "Hair Multiplication" back in the 1990s, and if he didn't have a
» very high level clearance from the government which is normally only
» granted to illustrious university academics, then in my opinion, he may
» have been violating the law.
»
» Please note that I'm not saying for certain that he was doing any of this.
» He may have just been talking about it and making claims in his literature
» about it. If he never actually did any of it, he wouldn't have been
» violating the law. But he was certainly making a lot of claims involving
» stem cells. Not just moving them around on a follicle, as he's doing now,
» but culturing them and multiplying them and injecting them into people's
» scalps.
»
» Since we never saw any clinical results from the GHO Clinic of people with
» substantial new hair from HM, that would indicate that he may have stopped
» just short of actually doing it.
I'm not asking to repeat yourself, I've read your comments. I'm asking: what is your point ? You now even say you don't know for sure he has done something illegal, so even that is not your point. What is ?
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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Arashi
24.03.2013, 15:27
@ Arashi
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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Or is your point that Dr Gho is either a liar or a criminal ? If that's your point, you really need to back up the accusations with proof. And again, I don't see the relevance to this thread, so start a new thread for it.
Arashi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
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roger_that
MARYLAND,
24.03.2013, 15:33
@ Arashi
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Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)
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» I'm not asking to repeat yourself, I've read your comments. I'm asking:
» what is your point ? You now even say you don't know for sure he has done
» something illegal, so even that is not your point. What is ?
It looks like your only point is to trap me into accusing Dr. Gho of violating the law. I am not making any such accusation. I'm just saying that if he was doing all that he said he was doing in the 90's, and he didn't have a very high-level academic permit that almost no one who isn't a highly-respected Ph.D. in the field would get, then I think he would have been violating the law, according to what my understanding of what European law was then. And if he had been granted such a permit, it would have been widely known in the academic world of stem cell researchers.
Obviously you're a complete newcomer to all of this but you have to realize that HairSite has been tracking Dr. Gho closely ever since around 1995-96 when he first came out with some claims of "hair multiplication" in a Dutch newspaper.
roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
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