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alecbaldone

26.10.2012, 14:03
 

PDG2 blocker ship (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

OK guys, www.iron-dragon.com shipped my pdg2 blocker solution. Should be in my mailbox early next week. I predict this stuff works and I am NOT a salesman for these guys, just pointing out that it is available.
Alec




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Dr Tom

Homepage

London,
26.10.2012, 16:26

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» OK guys, www.iron-dragon.com shipped my pdg2 blocker solution. Should be in
» my mailbox early next week. I predict this stuff works and I am NOT a
» salesman for these guys, just pointing out that it is available.
» Alec

Just be careful, there is no safety data for use in humans.

If you do use these then make sure that the chemicals are not in contact with any pregnant females in case they have negative outcomes on the developing fetus.




Dr Tom is located in LONDON and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

alecbaldone

26.10.2012, 17:20

@ Dr Tom

PDG2 blocker ship

»
» Just be careful, there is no safety data for use in humans.
»
» If you do use these then make sure that the chemicals are not in contact
» with any pregnant females in case they have negative outcomes on the
» developing fetus.

Will do, and Thanks for the head's up Dr.




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Willy

26.10.2012, 18:07

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

Good Luck!! And, please keep us posted :)




Willy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

26.10.2012, 18:53

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» OK guys, www.iron-dragon.com shipped my pdg2 blocker solution. Should be in
» my mailbox early next week. I predict this stuff works and I am NOT a
» salesman for these guys, just pointing out that it is available.
» Alec

do you have any idea what the active substance of the pdg2 blocker is?




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

26.10.2012, 20:02

@ hairman2

PDG2 blocker ship

»
» do you have any idea what the active substance of the pdg2 blocker is?

there is a description on their website..




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
27.10.2012, 15:25

@ Dr Tom

Not understanding something

» If you do use these then make sure that the chemicals are not in contact
» with any pregnant females in case they have negative outcomes on the
» developing fetus.

Dr. Tom, I'm not understanding some things here.

First of all, the 2 chemicals in that "mix" he ordered are Chromoglycolate and Indomethacin. Both are well-known pharmaceuticals that are FDA approved and available on the market already for other purposes.

Chromoglycolate is also known as "cromoglycolate" or "Cromolyn" as in "Cromolyn Sodium" or "Sodium Cromolyn" (now sold over the counter at pharmacies as 'NasalCrom'), which is an allergy medication. It works by preventing degranulation of the Mast cells in the tissues. This has the effect of stopping substances like prostaglandins and cytokines from being produced in places like the nasal mucosa and sinuses.

Indomethacin is an anti-inflammatory, also used as an analgesic or pain-killer. While it's a powerful drug, it's also widely available as Indocet or Indocin and I think you can already get it over the counter.

Also, technically the mix he's ordering is NOT a "PGD2 blocker" but instead a general prostaglandin inhibitor. It isn't blocking any PGD2 receptors like CRTH42. These compounds are instead preventing prostaglandins from being synthesized. Indomethacin works by inhibiting the COX-1 and COX-2 pathways.

I believe what these drugs are doing is suppressing the synthesis of ALL prostaglandins, definitely not just PGD2. They are probably suppressing "good" prostaglandins that promote hair growth, too -- like PGE2.

Also, if my theory of a PGD2 Synthase one-way gene switch activated by DHT is correct, they may do absolutely nothing about that, so even if they prevent synthesis of prostaglandins generally through other pathways, they completely ignore the synthesis of PGD2 through the direct induction of PGD2 Synthase pathway. Remember, the body first synthesizes other PGs like PGH2, and then PGH2 is turned into PGD2 by PGD2 Synthase.

If you have just a little PGD2 Synthase in your scalp skin, like a normal person, you'll never have enough PGD2 to go bald. If you have a lot of it, like people with MPB, you'll have a lot of PGD2 and go bald.

Since these 2 chemicals aren't blocking any PGD2 receptors at all, there may be still loads of "DHT induced" PGD2 on your scalp that these drugs do absolutely nothing about.

On the other hand, if they lower all prostaglandin levels in general, that might be good, since there's less PGH2 to be converted into PGD2.

I'm not saying this stuff won't have any effects -- it could work somewhat. But I have a strong hunch this is not the best approach.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

roger_that

MARYLAND,
27.10.2012, 15:38

@ hairman2

PDG2 blocker ship

» do you have any idea what the active substance of the pdg2 blocker is?

Hairman, please see my post above in this thread, for a description of the 2 drugs in the product he's ordered.

As for me, as far as what we need, I think OC000459 is far more precisely targeted than these 2 drugs.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

hairman2

27.10.2012, 19:04

@ roger_that

PDG2 blocker ship

» » do you have any idea what the active substance of the pdg2 blocker is?
»
» Hairman, please see my post above in this thread, for a description of the
» 2 drugs in the product he's ordered.
»
» As for me, as far as what we need, I think OC000459 is far more precisely
» targeted than these 2 drugs.

hm doesn't sound very promising indeed.




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
27.10.2012, 20:10

@ hairman2

PDG2 blocker ship

» hm doesn't sound very promising indeed.

You mean HM??




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

hairman2

27.10.2012, 22:38

@ roger_that

PDG2 blocker ship

» » hm doesn't sound very promising indeed.
»
» You mean HM??

um no :) sorry for the misunderstanding.. i mean the two substances don't sound like a promising solution




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

28.10.2012, 05:45

@ hairman2

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

OK my stuff from iron-dragon came in and i put it on my scalp this morning. feeling nothing yet and scalp is regular oily. I took some before pics in case it works we will have actual proof. I have 2 bottles. one is Indomethacin 35 mg/ml and one bottle of Cromoglycate 50mg/ml> only side effect so far is that some got into my eye and burned, had to rinse it out.
Alec




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

MPB

28.10.2012, 14:59

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» OK my stuff from iron-dragon came in and i put it on my scalp this morning.
» feeling nothing yet and scalp is regular oily. I took some before pics in
» case it works we will have actual proof. I have 2 bottles. one is
» Indomethacin 35 mg/ml and one bottle of Cromoglycate 50mg/ml> only side
» effect so far is that some got into my eye and burned, had to rinse it
» out.
» Alec


I also ordered some of this stuff. Hasn't arrived yet, but thought it would be worth a shot. There is a lot of merit to what Roger_that says however in that it would probably be more effective to place emphasis on the receptor instead of trying to reduce the amount of PGD2. I guess we will find out.



MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

28.10.2012, 19:50

@ MPB

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers


» I also ordered some of this stuff. Hasn't arrived yet, but thought it would
» be worth a shot. There is a lot of merit to what Roger_that says however in
» that it would probably be more effective to place emphasis on the receptor
» instead of trying to reduce the amount of PGD2. I guess we will find out.

@MPB
It has been 24 hours and all is well, no ithching or noticable sides. If this doesnt produce something in a few weeks im going to add Dutersteride and do both for a while.




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

MPB

28.10.2012, 20:51

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» \»
» » I also ordered some of this stuff. Hasn't arrived yet, but thought it
» would
» » be worth a shot. There is a lot of merit to what Roger_that says however
» in
» » that it would probably be more effective to place emphasis on the
» receptor
» » instead of trying to reduce the amount of PGD2. I guess we will find
» out.
»
» @MPB
» It has been 24 hours and all is well, no ithching or noticable sides. If
» this doesnt produce something in a few weeks im going to add Dutersteride
» and do both for a while.


I just recieved mine. 1 bottle of Indomethacin (35 mg/ml) and 1 bottle of Cromoglycate (50 mg/ml) How do you intend the application of this combination?



MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

28.10.2012, 21:19

@ MPB

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

I did one or 2 squirt of each at same time on top of head and rubbed it all over real fast, like minoxidile if it were in 2 bottles. rub it fast though, some of it spilled into my eye and burned.




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

MPB

28.10.2012, 21:36

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» I did one or 2 squirt of each at same time on top of head and rubbed it all
» over real fast, like minoxidile if it were in 2 bottles. rub it fast
» though, some of it spilled into my eye and burned.

Thanks Alec... so use like minox, but both at the same time



MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

29.10.2012, 01:25

@ MPB

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» Thanks Alec... so use like minox, but both at the same time

correct




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Freddie555

29.10.2012, 03:30

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

Alright guys keep us posted as to the results.

Continue to take good quality pictures with dates written on them no matter how small you believe the improvement is.




Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
"When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001

alecbaldone

29.10.2012, 13:32

@ Freddie555

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» Alright guys keep us posted as to the results.
»
» Continue to take good quality pictures with dates written on them no matter
» how small you believe the improvement is.

Will do. it has already been 48 hours and no noticeable growth yet :(




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

29.10.2012, 13:53

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» » Alright guys keep us posted as to the results.
» »
» » Continue to take good quality pictures with dates written on them no
» matter
» » how small you believe the improvement is.
»
» Will do. it has already been 48 hours and no noticeable growth yet :(

i believe it is safe to say that it has been a complete failure then.... :P




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

29.10.2012, 16:02

@ hairman2

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» »
» » Will do. it has already been 48 hours and no noticeable growth yet :(
»
» i believe it is safe to say that it has been a complete failure then.... :P

HAHAHA. Im going to give it a few months. I grew a lot of peach fuzz by taking duterestiride a few years ago so if the PDG2 blockers do not work, I plan to add Dut to my regiment. my scalp feels a little different with the PDG2 blocker rubbed on it, but onnly slightly noticeable feeling. Plus I had a lot of booze for halloweeen, so that probably doesnt help. I took before pics so we can compare in a few months. Confidence is high




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

bug2

30.10.2012, 04:55

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

I haven't posted here in like a decade but I thought I should just point out that indomethacin is a CRTH2 agonist...not an ANTagonist. An agonist has the opposite effect of an antagonist. In other words putting indomethacin on your head is like putting PGD2 on your head....not something you want to do....in fact its the worst possible thing you could do. Technically speaking I guess it could loosely be called a PGD2 "blocker" because it competes with PGD2 for the CRTH2 receptor(although its not as strong as PDG2 itself). Nevertheless you don't want PGD2 nor indomethacin activating the CRTH2 receptor. You want to block the receptor with an antagonist.

cheers
bug




» » »
» » » Will do. it has already been 48 hours and no noticeable growth yet :(
» »
» » i believe it is safe to say that it has been a complete failure then....
» :P
»
» HAHAHA. Im going to give it a few months. I grew a lot of peach fuzz by
» taking duterestiride a few years ago so if the PDG2 blockers do not work, I
» plan to add Dut to my regiment. my scalp feels a little different with the
» PDG2 blocker rubbed on it, but onnly slightly noticeable feeling. Plus I
» had a lot of booze for halloweeen, so that probably doesnt help. I took
» before pics so we can compare in a few months. Confidence is high




bug2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

optimist

30.10.2012, 07:25

@ bug2

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

Indomethacin is an NSAID. it blocks prostaglandin synthesis (every prostaglandin, whether good or bad for hair)... if pgd2 is the real culprit and pge2 is required for hair growth, then the only way to get hair growth is either get crth2 (pgd2) receptor blocker or a pgd2 synthase inhibitor.... indomethacin would theoritically block synthesis of both the good (pge2) and bad (pgd2) prostaglandins.... however there have been cases of people taking some strong anti-inflammatory drugs like sulfasalazine (a sulfonamide, not an nsaid) and ketoprofen (nsaid) and getting amazing results i have read in the forums... based on the assumption that anti inflammatory drugs are good for hair, indomethacin might work bcoz its a very strong antiinflammatory drug....




optimist is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

30.10.2012, 08:46

@ optimist

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

interestingly, the following site seems to suggest that:

"PGD2 is released through mast cell degranulation in the initial phase of IgE-mediated reactions. This process is also thought to occur at the site of inflammation, such as the nasal and bronchial mucosa."

and

"Through interaction with CRTH2, PGD2 is thought to mediate recruitment and activation of CRTH2-bearing cell types to the site of the allergic reaction, in consequence amplifying and maintaining the allergic inflammation"

For years people have sought a connection between their scalp itching and hair loss... It seems that PGD2 may really finally be the missing link...

http://www1.actelion.com/en/scientists/mechanisms-of-action/crth2-receptor-antagonism.page

» Indomethacin is an NSAID. it blocks prostaglandin synthesis (every
» prostaglandin, whether good or bad for hair)... if pgd2 is the real
» culprit and pge2 is required for hair growth, then the only way to get hair
» growth is either get crth2 (pgd2) receptor blocker or a pgd2 synthase
» inhibitor.... indomethacin would theoritically block synthesis of both the
» good (pge2) and bad (pgd2) prostaglandins.... however there have been cases
» of people taking some strong anti-inflammatory drugs like sulfasalazine (a
» sulfonamide, not an nsaid) and ketoprofen (nsaid) and getting amazing
» results i have read in the forums... based on the assumption that anti
» inflammatory drugs are good for hair, indomethacin might work bcoz its a
» very strong antiinflammatory drug....




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

optimist

30.10.2012, 11:55

@ hairman2

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

yap good find... this implies that another way to block pgd2 action would be to inhibit its release from mast cells. cromolyn, nedocromil are antiasthmatic drugs that act this way.... but again, pge2 (which is good for hair) is also released during mast cell degranulation. so these grugz r gona b effective if one establishes dat pgd2 is produced (and thus released) in abundance than pge2 by the mast cells such that blocking mast cell degranulation would have an overall greater decrease in pgd2 to pge2 ratio... otherwise it would b just lyk giving an nsaid as far as pgd2 n pge2 inhibition is concerned....




optimist is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

30.10.2012, 13:02

@ optimist

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

You guys are more knowledgeable about the chemistry behind this I can see. I plan to continue to use both bottles and see if anything grows, I have nothing to lose!! lol




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

30.10.2012, 19:36

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

It has been 3 days and no regrowth yet, but my scalp feels funny. not itchy or anything but i can tell there is a war going on on my scalp. DHT vs PDG2 blockers




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

MPB

31.10.2012, 00:21

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» It has been 3 days and no regrowth yet, but my scalp feels funny. not itchy
» or anything but i can tell there is a war going on on my scalp. DHT vs PDG2
» blockers

I can say the same. I dont know what is going on up there. I'm just testing it on the back right now where my hair has been miniturizing for about 7 years. So far, the itching seemed to subside....so if for no other reason, that would keep me using these PDG2 blockers because that frickin itch was driving me nutz.



MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

31.10.2012, 13:45

@ MPB

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

All good on day 4 here MPB. battle might be Indomethacin fighting itself!!! lol. some guys saying it is antoganist and protagionist which I dont understand but im continueing to take both until I grow hair of have bad side effects. my scalp is slightly less oily. Alec




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
01.11.2012, 02:51

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» All good on day 4 here MPB. battle might be Indomethacin fighting itself!!!
» lol. some guys saying it is antoganist and protagionist which I dont
» understand but im continueing to take both until I grow hair of have bad
» side effects. my scalp is slightly less oily. Alec

It seems that many people are unfamiliar with the word "agonist".

Indomethacin is a CRTH42 agonist, not an antagonist.

An AGONIST is the exact opposite of an antagonist.

An antagonist inhibits the action of the receptor. An agonist actually promotes or activates the receptor.

This is exactly what you DON'T want.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

brazil1

01.11.2012, 04:48

@ roger_that

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» » All good on day 4 here MPB. battle might be Indomethacin fighting
» itself!!!
» » lol. some guys saying it is antoganist and protagionist which I dont
» » understand but im continueing to take both until I grow hair of have bad
» » side effects. my scalp is slightly less oily. Alec
»
» It seems that many people are unfamiliar with the word "agonist".
»
» Indomethacin is a CRTH42 agonist, not an antagonist.
»
» An AGONIST is the exact opposite of an antagonist.
»
» An antagonist inhibits the action of the receptor. An agonist actually
» promotes or activates the receptor.
»
» This is exactly what you DON'T want.

I have been following this site for a while and also buy bodybuilding related products from ID. I know a little bit about how they work based on interactions in the past and can say they do not put out products that are not well thought out.

My biochem background also helps.

It appears indomethacin is included in the formulation for its effects on PGD synthase, which is significant. Local expression of PGD2 will be reduced by reducing PGD synthase and mast cell release of PGD2. Whether this will only halt balding or whether it will induce regrowth is impossible to say.

As for the agonist effect of indomethacin, this is why I joined the site - because sometimes it gets old hearing things get repeated by those who do not fully understand them.

Dude, you may know enough to explain what an agonist is, but it is clear you either don't have the knowledge or the willingness to dig deeper.

Click this study and follow along: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/168/3/981.long

Now, IC50 and EC50 are terms used primarily in in vitro studies. IC50 is the concentration required to inhibit 50% of the effect at the receptor level of 50% of a given effect observed. EC50 stands for excitatory concentration, and is the opposite (required for activation of an effect.

From the study - there is some competitive effect, see below:

"indomethacin indeed inhibited [3H]PGD2 binding to K562/CRTH2 cells with the lowest IC50 value (8.1 ± 1.9 μM) among NSAIDs examined"

Now the agonist effect may be of concern, but the question becomes how potent the agonist is. Some agonists are weak and others are strong... the ratio of activity compared to the usual ligand (in this case PGD2) is significant.

The below indicates a relative potency for chemotaxis (compared to PGD2) of about 1/20-1/50, though this excerpt does not speak to receptor binding directly:

"CRTH2-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/CRTH2) were indeed attracted by indomethacin and PGD2 (approximate EC50, 50 nM and 1 nM, respectively) but mock-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/neo) were not (Fig. 3⇓A). DP-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/DP) were suppressed in their spontaneous migration by PGD2, as shown previously (8), but not by indomethacin (Fig. 3⇓A). Indomethacin and PGD2 also induced chemotactic migration of Th2 but not Th1 cells at submicromolar concentrations (EC50, 50–100 nM and 2–3 nM, respectively; Fig. 3⇓B)."

The below is a better indicator of the relative potency of indomethacin as opposed to PGD2...

"Indomethacin induced Ca2+ mobilization in K562/CRTH2 cells at submicromolar concentrations (approximate EC50, 50 nM) with around one order of magnitude lower potency than that of PGD2;"

This means one of two things. If receptor binding is equal or indomethacin is graeter, the fact that indomethacin is about 1/10 as potent as PGD2 (a "weak agonist";) could be almost as good as an inhibitory effect.

If it is not equally strong-binding, which is likely the case, then its effects on the receptor are very minimal to the point of being insignificant IF PGD2 is already active there (and the whole assumption of this thread is that that is the case in bald men).

The fact is that a receptor-binding antagonist is necessary in a formulation with or without indomethacin. Seeing as this is the first PGD2 inhibitor product availalble, it was probably put out to meet demand - I would not be surprised if subsequently the product improves, or competitors pick up on this.

However, the supposed agonist activity of indomethacin is not likely as significant a factor as the inhibitory effect on PGD synthase. In allergy models of PGD2 inhibition it is equally effective to many CRTH2 receptor antagonists in efficacy; if it stimulated CRTH2 receptors in a meaningful way it would not likely be that effective.




brazil1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
01.11.2012, 12:58

@ brazil1

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

brazil1, I have to say that was well-explained, pretty comprehensive, and it makes sense!

I understand exactly what you're saying. It's probably natural for Indomethacin to have some agonist effect on CRTH42 because, just like PGD2, it has affinity for the receptor's active site. But I understand now according to what you're saying, the actual agonist effect in activating the receptor is pretty weak, compared to its direct inhibitory effect on PGD2 Synthase. If this is true, it's great.

The NCBI study I posted said nothing about this.

Can you tell us what are your thoughts on OC000459?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

alecbaldone

01.11.2012, 14:02

@ roger_that

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

@ brazil1 and others,
Thank you all for clarifying and sharing your knowledge. I have been using both products for PDG2 blockers for 5 days now and no noticeable growth at all, as expected 5 days isnt long. However I will say that my scalp does feel different, maybe slightly sunburned feeling and I can tell that something is definitely going on. Slightly less oily scalp. Also, yesterday I scratched my head and scalp hard and thoroughly over a white sheet of paper and NOT 1 hair fell out!! This is definitely an improvement. I'll keep you guys updated a I took before pics that are great. Im also taking Jintropin and T4. If I do not have any growth after 6 weeks or so I plan to add Dutarstide. Also, i have ordered many products from Iron-Dragon and I am not an advertiser to promote them but I have been very happy with everything I have bought from them and the ship FAST. Regards and Thanks for the intel guys, confidence is high
Alec B




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

brazil1

01.11.2012, 17:13

@ roger_that

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» brazil1, I have to say that was well-explained, pretty comprehensive, and
» it makes sense!
»
» I understand exactly what you're saying. It's probably natural for
» Indomethacin to have some agonist effect on CRTH42 because, just like PGD2,
» it has affinity for the receptor's active site. But I understand now
» according to what you're saying, the actual agonist effect in activating
» the receptor is pretty weak, compared to its direct inhibitory effect on
» PGD2 Synthase. If this is true, it's great.
»
» The NCBI study I posted said nothing about this.
»
» Can you tell us what are your thoughts on OC000459?

Greetings roger,

First I owe you a bit of an apology for being short. I sometimes forget it's just another person behind the screen and I intended my post to be in the spirit of sharing knowledge/perspective, not attacking. I should have been more careful with my tone and I apologize for criticizing you when you were just seeking to improve your own understanding and share perspective with others :-) .

As for OC and other receptor antagonists, it's hard to say but I agree they are promising.

My own perspective is that hopefully the market will work some of these questions out as different formulations are released by different, semi-underground grey market companies (as opposed to in trials... when drug companies say something is 2-3 years off it generally means "we don't know," 5 years off means "it may never get to market";).

There are so many different mechanisms for PGD2 release and activity that I would guess a combined formulation could be more effective more quickly. Because deriving effective in vivo concentrations from in vitro studies is not an exact science, it's possible something like OC could be cost prohibitive in practice unless manufactured on a huge scale. On the other hand you have mast cell stabilizers, PGD synthase inhibitors, CRTH2 receptor antagonists, and competitive prostaglandin receptor agonists with weak activity at the receptor (or antagonistic activity in reality) such as other prostaglandins, and possibly indomethacin.

One reason a combo formulation might be more effective is that it's unclear whether H-PGDS or L-PGDS is more important, and if L-PGDS is the primary cause of PGD2 in the male scalp, mast cells and the typical "inflammation/allergy" mechanisms are not as relevant in the balding process, and even receptor antagonists would not do the trick if, for example, L-PGDS converted AA into PGD2 and chemotaxis attracted CRTH2 receptors to the scalp.

Since the mechanism is really not well understood I would hold out hope for a variety of "shotgun approach" formulations (several ingredients in hopefully effective concentrations as opposed to a 'silver bullet' such as a single ingredient, no matter how promising), hope that people test it patiently under reasonably controlled conditions, and await the anecdotal results.

Immediate regrowth or reversal of balding is obviously the holy grail but it could take 30 days, 60 days, or 6 months to get observable results. I do think prostaglandins are a very promising mechanism but would look for anecdotes of *stopping balding* to emerge, with any regrowth taking a lot longer. If you think of balding as a disease process, there really aren't any cures that immediately heal you... cures typically halt the disease process then "healing" or reversal occurs more slowly.

Hope those thoughts were helpful guys. Good luck and I'll check back in to see what the anecdotal results are with this or other formulations - you guys are pioneers and as a libertarian I applaud the market mechanisms at work here and hope some daring entrepreneurs hit gold with this soon :-)




brazil1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Frank

01.11.2012, 18:14

@ brazil1

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» » brazil1, I have to say that was well-explained, pretty comprehensive,
» and
» » it makes sense!
» »
» » I understand exactly what you're saying. It's probably natural for
» » Indomethacin to have some agonist effect on CRTH42 because, just like
» PGD2,
» » it has affinity for the receptor's active site. But I understand now
» » according to what you're saying, the actual agonist effect in activating
» » the receptor is pretty weak, compared to its direct inhibitory effect on
» » PGD2 Synthase. If this is true, it's great.
» »
» » The NCBI study I posted said nothing about this.
» »
» » Can you tell us what are your thoughts on OC000459?
»
» Greetings roger,
»
» First I owe you a bit of an apology for being short. I sometimes forget
» it's just another person behind the screen and I intended my post to be in
» the spirit of sharing knowledge/perspective, not attacking. I should have
» been more careful with my tone and I apologize for criticizing you when you
» were just seeking to improve your own understanding and share perspective
» with others :-) .
»
» As for OC and other receptor antagonists, it's hard to say but I agree they
» are promising.
»
» My own perspective is that hopefully the market will work some of these
» questions out as different formulations are released by different,
» semi-underground grey market companies (as opposed to in trials... when
» drug companies say something is 2-3 years off it generally means "we don't
» know," 5 years off means "it may never get to market";).
»
» There are so many different mechanisms for PGD2 release and activity that I
» would guess a combined formulation could be more effective more quickly.
» Because deriving effective in vivo concentrations from in vitro studies is
» not an exact science, it's possible something like OC could be cost
» prohibitive in practice unless manufactured on a huge scale. On the other
» hand you have mast cell stabilizers, PGD synthase inhibitors, CRTH2
» receptor antagonists, and competitive prostaglandin receptor agonists with
» weak activity at the receptor (or antagonistic activity in reality) such as
» other prostaglandins, and possibly indomethacin.
»
» One reason a combo formulation might be more effective is that it's unclear
» whether H-PGDS or L-PGDS is more important, and if L-PGDS is the primary
» cause of PGD2 in the male scalp, mast cells and the typical
» "inflammation/allergy" mechanisms are not as relevant in the balding
» process, and even receptor antagonists would not do the trick if, for
» example, L-PGDS converted AA into PGD2 and chemotaxis attracted CRTH2
» receptors to the scalp.
»
» Since the mechanism is really not well understood I would hold out hope for
» a variety of "shotgun approach" formulations (several ingredients in
» hopefully effective concentrations as opposed to a 'silver bullet' such as
» a single ingredient, no matter how promising), hope that people test it
» patiently under reasonably controlled conditions, and await the anecdotal
» results.
»
» Immediate regrowth or reversal of balding is obviously the holy grail but
» it could take 30 days, 60 days, or 6 months to get observable results. I
» do think prostaglandins are a very promising mechanism but would look for
» anecdotes of *stopping balding* to emerge, with any regrowth taking a lot
» longer. If you think of balding as a disease process, there really aren't
» any cures that immediately heal you... cures typically halt the disease
» process then "healing" or reversal occurs more slowly.
»
» Hope those thoughts were helpful guys. Good luck and I'll check back in to
» see what the anecdotal results are with this or other formulations - you
» guys are pioneers and as a libertarian I applaud the market mechanisms at
» work here and hope some daring entrepreneurs hit gold with this soon :-)



Wow....to both of your posts. Don't know where you came from, but hope you stick around. Thanks for your penetrating insight and explanations.




Frank is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mlouis

01.11.2012, 22:45

@ brazil1

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

»
» One reason a combo formulation might be more effective is that it's unclear
» whether H-PGDS or L-PGDS is more important, and if L-PGDS is the primary
» cause of PGD2 in the male scalp, mast cells and the typical
» "inflammation/allergy" mechanisms are not as relevant in the balding
» process, and even receptor antagonists would not do the trick if, for
» example, L-PGDS converted AA into PGD2 and chemotaxis attracted CRTH2
» receptors to the scalp.
»

Not sure what they base it on, but according to this (a good article in general), only H-PGDS is relevant in balding....

http://southernresearchco.com/pgd2-inhibitors




mlouis is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
02.11.2012, 12:29

@ mlouis

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» Not sure what they base it on, but according to this (a good article in
» general), only H-PGDS is relevant in balding....
»
» http://southernresearchco.com/pgd2-inhibitors

I think it's because L-PGDS is only made in nervous system tissues (like the brain), and H-PGDS is made in Mast cells in the non-neural tissues like the skin, GI tract, etc.

If H-PGDS is the only type of PGDS that exists in the scalp, then it's the only one worth worrying about.

If the active site of H-PGDS is different from that of L-PGDS, then it's possible that a PGD2 inhibitor would have to be custom-designed to block H-PGDS.

Fortunately I'm pretty sure that all the existing PGD2 blockers on the market, or being tested in clinical trials -- like OC000459 -- focus on the H version, not the L version.

It would make no sense for them to be targeted to the L version since they're not intended for use in the nervous system.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

roger_that

MARYLAND,
02.11.2012, 12:39

@ brazil1

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

Thank you, brazil1. Your comments have been extremely informative. I'm sure many people here appreciate them because you are providing a deeper scientific perspective than I think we've had here before, at least to my memory.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

jarjarbinx

04.11.2012, 00:40

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» OK guys, www.iron-dragon.com shipped my pdg2 blocker solution. Should be in
» my mailbox early next week. I predict this stuff works and I am NOT a
» salesman for these guys, just pointing out that it is available.
» Alec


good luck

I think that this method will negate prostaglandins that your hair needs such as PGE2 so I think that this method is iffy unless perhaps if you also put PGE2 into your scalp.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Frank

14.11.2012, 22:24

@ roger_that

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» » Not sure what they base it on, but according to this (a good article in
» » general), only H-PGDS is relevant in balding....
» »
» » http://southernresearchco.com/pgd2-inhibitors
»
» I think it's because L-PGDS is only made in nervous system tissues (like
» the brain), and H-PGDS is made in Mast cells in the non-neural tissues like
» the skin, GI tract, etc.
»
» If H-PGDS is the only type of PGDS that exists in the scalp, then it's the
» only one worth worrying about.
»
» If the active site of H-PGDS is different from that of L-PGDS, then it's
» possible that a PGD2 inhibitor would have to be custom-designed to block
» H-PGDS.
»
» Fortunately I'm pretty sure that all the existing PGD2 blockers on the
» market, or being tested in clinical trials -- like OC000459 -- focus on the
» H version, not the L version.
»
» It would make no sense for them to be targeted to the L version since
» they're not intended for use in the nervous system.


I hope you're right, seems to give us more options, but we need to be as sure of this as possible. If it's the other way around then those trying mast cell inhibitors are wasting their time.

The reason I bring this up is that poster on HLH forum, Ganster, seems positive --I'd even say adamant-- it is the L version found in hair follicles.
I'd try to run down the answer myself, but probably would have better chance of batting cleanup for the Red Sox.

Hopefully, someone here can get to the bottom of this important part of the puzzle.




Frank is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

14.11.2012, 22:59

@ alecbaldone

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» @ brazil1 and others,
» Thank you all for clarifying and sharing your knowledge. I have been using
» both products for PDG2 blockers for 5 days now and no noticeable growth at
» all, as expected 5 days isnt long. However I will say that my scalp does
» feel different, maybe slightly sunburned feeling and I can tell that
» something is definitely going on. Slightly less oily scalp. Also, yesterday
» I scratched my head and scalp hard and thoroughly over a white sheet of
» paper and NOT 1 hair fell out!! This is definitely an improvement. I'll
» keep you guys updated a I took before pics that are great. Im also taking
» Jintropin and T4. If I do not have any growth after 6 weeks or so I plan to
» add Dutarstide. Also, i have ordered many products from Iron-Dragon and I
» am not an advertiser to promote them but I have been very happy with
» everything I have bought from them and the ship FAST. Regards and Thanks
» for the intel guys, confidence is high
» Alec B


Alec, It seems to me that what you are doing will work to prevent further hair miniaturization because you have eliminated all of the prostaglandins, including the prostaglandins that cause hair to miniaturize.

If your treatment works it will eliminate the prostaglandins that miniaturizes follicles and the prostaglandins that cause hair to grow. So if your treatment does what it should do you would end up with LESS PGE2 than you had before you started your treatment since your treatment will inhibit the continued production of PGE2 that your scalp was producing pre-treatment. So not only have you neglected to increase your PGE2 in the thinning areas of your scalp; you have actually instead decreased the PGE2 in the thinning areas of your scalp.

Since you are targeting the place where prostaglandins are formed adding drugs like rogaine, bimatoprost, or latanprost to increase PGE2 would likely not work because the treatment you are on would prevent rogaine, latanoprost, bimatoprost from producing PGE2 in your scalp since the treatment you are on inhibits the formation of all prostaglandins, including PGE2. For this reason it seems to me like the only way you can increase the amount of PGE2 in your thinning areas is to apply PGE2 itself to your thinning areas. If you apply PGE2 itself to your thinning areas then you don't have to worry about the treatment you are on preventing PGE2 from forming in your thinning areas because you would be applying PGE2 itself to the thinning areas.

Because of the treatment that you are using you should have less PGE2 than you did pre-treatment and your hairs may need PGE2 in order to grow.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

neversaynever

14.11.2012, 23:35

@ brazil1

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

» » » All good on day 4 here MPB. battle might be Indomethacin fighting
» » itself!!!
» » » lol. some guys saying it is antoganist and protagionist which I dont
» » » understand but im continueing to take both until I grow hair of have
» bad
» » » side effects. my scalp is slightly less oily. Alec
» »
» » It seems that many people are unfamiliar with the word "agonist".
» »
» » Indomethacin is a CRTH42 agonist, not an antagonist.
» »
» » An AGONIST is the exact opposite of an antagonist.
» »
» » An antagonist inhibits the action of the receptor. An agonist actually
» » promotes or activates the receptor.
» »
» » This is exactly what you DON'T want.
»
» I have been following this site for a while and also buy bodybuilding
» related products from ID. I know a little bit about how they work based on
» interactions in the past and can say they do not put out products that are
» not well thought out.
»
» My biochem background also helps.
»
» It appears indomethacin is included in the formulation for its effects on
» PGD synthase, which is significant. Local expression of PGD2 will be
» reduced by reducing PGD synthase and mast cell release of PGD2. Whether
» this will only halt balding or whether it will induce regrowth is
» impossible to say.
»
» As for the agonist effect of indomethacin, this is why I joined the site -
» because sometimes it gets old hearing things get repeated by those who do
» not fully understand them.
»
» Dude, you may know enough to explain what an agonist is, but it is clear
» you either don't have the knowledge or the willingness to dig deeper.
»
» Click this study and follow along:
» http://www.jimmunol.org/content/168/3/981.long
»
» Now, IC50 and EC50 are terms used primarily in in vitro studies. IC50 is
» the concentration required to inhibit 50% of the effect at the receptor
» level of 50% of a given effect observed. EC50 stands for excitatory
» concentration, and is the opposite (required for activation of an effect.
»
» From the study - there is some competitive effect, see below:
»
» "indomethacin indeed inhibited [3H]PGD2 binding to K562/CRTH2 cells with
» the lowest IC50 value (8.1 ± 1.9 μM) among NSAIDs examined"
»
» Now the agonist effect may be of concern, but the question becomes how
» potent the agonist is. Some agonists are weak and others are strong... the
» ratio of activity compared to the usual ligand (in this case PGD2) is
» significant.
»
» The below indicates a relative potency for chemotaxis (compared to PGD2) of
» about 1/20-1/50, though this excerpt does not speak to receptor binding
» directly:
»
» "CRTH2-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/CRTH2) were indeed attracted by
» indomethacin and PGD2 (approximate EC50, 50 nM and 1 nM, respectively) but
» mock-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/neo) were not (Fig. 3⇓A).
» DP-transfected Jurkat cells (Jurkat/DP) were suppressed in their
» spontaneous migration by PGD2, as shown previously (8), but not by
» indomethacin (Fig. 3⇓A). Indomethacin and PGD2 also induced
» chemotactic migration of Th2 but not Th1 cells at submicromolar
» concentrations (EC50, 50–100 nM and 2–3 nM, respectively; Fig.
» 3⇓B)."
»
» The below is a better indicator of the relative potency of indomethacin as
» opposed to PGD2...
»
» "Indomethacin induced Ca2+ mobilization in K562/CRTH2 cells at
» submicromolar concentrations (approximate EC50, 50 nM) with around one
» order of magnitude lower potency than that of PGD2;"
»
» This means one of two things. If receptor binding is equal or indomethacin
» is graeter, the fact that indomethacin is about 1/10 as potent as PGD2 (a
» "weak agonist";) could be almost as good as an inhibitory effect.
»
» If it is not equally strong-binding, which is likely the case, then its
» effects on the receptor are very minimal to the point of being
» insignificant IF PGD2 is already active there (and the whole assumption of
» this thread is that that is the case in bald men).
»
» The fact is that a receptor-binding antagonist is necessary in a
» formulation with or without indomethacin. Seeing as this is the first PGD2
» inhibitor product availalble, it was probably put out to meet demand - I
» would not be surprised if subsequently the product improves, or competitors
» pick up on this.
»
» However, the supposed agonist activity of indomethacin is not likely as
» significant a factor as the inhibitory effect on PGD synthase. In allergy
» models of PGD2 inhibition it is equally effective to many CRTH2 receptor
» antagonists in efficacy; if it stimulated CRTH2 receptors in a meaningful
» way it would not likely be that effective.

Brilliant post. Hope you stick around. Theres alot of knowledgable guys around here, but people with your insight are needed to help make sense of it all.

So its true that PGd2 blockers will also block all other PGs??




neversaynever is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

15.11.2012, 00:42

@ neversaynever

It's Saturday night and I'm bald, but on PDG2 blockers

»
» Brilliant post. Hope you stick around. Theres alot of knowledgable guys
» around here, but people with your insight are needed to help make sense of
» it all.
»
» So its true that PGd2 blockers will also block all other PGs??


That would depend on how your PGD2 blocker works. If you block PGD2 by blocking the GPR44 receptor then you would only block the PGs that inhibit hair growth but if you block PGD2 at a point before that...to the point where PG's themselves are formed, then that would block all PGs. Whether or not all PGs are blocked depends on at what point in the PG chain you set the block.

Alec has set his block at an early point in the PG chain. He has set his block at a point where PGs are formed and he blocking PGs at that early point so he is blocking the formation of all PGs.

I myself would prefer to set a block at the point of the GPR44 receptor because that will allow other PG activity to take place, such as PGE2 activity which stimulates hair growth. But Alec has selected an earlier point to block PGD2 and the result is that all PG formation is inhibited by his treatment because he has chosen to set his block so early in the PG chain.

He's blocking not only the PGs that inhibit hair growth, but also the PGs that stimulate hair to grow. This might be effective at arresting hair loss but unfortunately since he has negated the PGs (PGE2) that stimulate hair growth it might also be effective at stimulating hair growth. There might be an easy solution to the problem - add pure PGE2.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

15.11.2012, 01:53

@ jarjarbinx

PDG2 blocker ship

JarJar, you are making a valid point and as of now, day 17, it is true. I have TOTALLY stopped losing hair, but no regrowth at all showing. What do you think of me adding Dutersterade? I used Dut 10 years ago and it grow a lot of vellous hairs that never developed then shed and my semen was watery and lost pressure so I quit it. If I dont have any regrowth I was planning to add Dut to my regime in a few weeks, but considering adding it now. As I stated in earlier posts that our friend on this board "MPB" is also using the iron-dragon pdg2 blockers formula and has also stated he totally stopped losing hair. I feel fine, scalp not itchy and no side affects at all. I think we are close, this is only thing I have tried in 20 years that stopped my hair loss completely so we are going in right direction, Have a good day men, Alec




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

15.11.2012, 02:47

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» JarJar, you are making a valid point and as of now, day 17, it is true. I
» have TOTALLY stopped losing hair, but no regrowth at all showing. What do
» you think of me adding Dutersterade? I used Dut 10 years ago and it grow a
» lot of vellous hairs that never developed then shed and my semen was watery
» and lost pressure so I quit it. If I dont have any regrowth I was planning
» to add Dut to my regime in a few weeks, but considering adding it now. As I
» stated in earlier posts that our friend on this board "MPB" is also using
» the iron-dragon pdg2 blockers formula and has also stated he totally
» stopped losing hair. I feel fine, scalp not itchy and no side affects at
» all. I think we are close, this is only thing I have tried in 20 years that
» stopped my hair loss completely so we are going in right direction, Have a
» good day men, Alec


Alec, are you 100% sure you've stopped your hair loss? Were you still losing hair before you started your treatment? If you are 100% sure that you were losing hair before you started the treatment, and if you are 100% sure that you have stopped your hair loss, then I would say that your treatment is already successful to a degree.

That aside, if your treatment is working it might work better if you let more time go by. Remember that you are talking about two different biological tasks:

1. Stopping hair loss.

2. Making lost hair regrow.


Of course STOPPING hair loss will be the easier of the two biological tasks so it will occur FIRST. Since Making lost hair regrow is a much harder biological task it would take longer for that to happen. It could take months longer than simply arresting the hair loss.

That aside, I still think it is in your best interests to add PGE2 to your treatment plan. I don't see any reason to add dutasteride although I don't think it would damage your objective either. But in my view the thing that you need is PGE2.

Listen Alex if you have really stopped hair loss then the PGD2 blocker is working, but think about how it works. It works by preventing the formation of ALL prostaglandins. Yes, it's true that it appears that some prostaglandins cause hair loss (PGD2 and its' derivatives) but some prostaglandins cause hair to grow. And as I already said if you have really stopped your hair loss you have accomplished this feat by stopping the formation of the prostaglandins that inhibit hair growth but in the process you have also stopped the formation of the prostaglandins that cause hair to grow because you have stopped the formation of ALL prostaglandins, both the good and the bad.

In my view this means you have to find a way to artificially add the prostaglandins that cause hair to grow - PGE2.

You could do this via minoxidil, latanoprost, or bimatoprost if your PGD2 blocker were a GPR44 rceptor blocker but your PGD2 blocker isn't a GPR44 blocker. Your PG@ blocker blocks the PGD2 chain of events before the point in the chain that PGD2 binds to the GPR44 blocker. Your treatment blocks PGD2 at the point in the PGD2 chain where PGD2, and all other PGs, are formed. I think this means that minoxidil, latanoprost, and bimatoprost won't work to increase the PGE2 in your scalp because the PGD2 blocker that you are on would prevent minoxidil, latanoprost, bimatoprost from forming PGE2 since the PGD2 blocker you are on is theoretically preventing the formation of ALL PGs, which would include PGE2.

In my view this means that the only way to get PGE2 into your scalp is to put PGE2 itself into your scalp because the PGD2 blocker that you are on does NOT interfere with PGs, including PGE2, after they are already formed. So if you put PGE2 itself into your scalp your treatment shouldn't interfere with that PGE2 since that PGE2 that you would be applying would already be formed and your treatment only interferes with PGE2 that isn't formed yet.


Am I making sense?

I would like to see what Roger_that and Hairman 2 think about what I'm saying.

I think you can purchase PGE2, and I think it's relatively cheap too.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

15.11.2012, 10:00

@ jarjarbinx

PDG2 blocker ship

» Am I making sense?
»
» I would like to see what Roger_that and Hairman 2 think about what I'm
» saying.
»
» I think you can purchase PGE2, and I think it's relatively cheap too.

I agree with jarjarbinx on this.. it seems dutasteride wld not harm but not be overly beneificial either.

The study of cots clearly mentions that it is important to both block PGD2 and increase PGE2. However I am not sure what the best method of increasing PGE2 would be. As far as I know, it has only been speculated that Minox increases PGE2 but it is not confirmed. I'll try to do some reading up, later on how to increase PGE2..

best of luck! and I also think that its great news that your hairloss has stopped.. that in itself is *QUITE* something already.. I would pay thousands to keep my current hair, however preferably without having to apply a topical twice a day (i find topicals a real pita)




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

15.11.2012, 15:02

@ hairman2

PDG2 blocker ship

I am 100% absolutely sure that using the PGD2 blockers has completely stopped my hair loss. Before using it any time that I would rub my head over a sheet of paper I would lose 10-20 hairs. Now I lose 0 hairs. Im my prime, a few years ago I would rub my head and lose 50 hairs.




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

15.11.2012, 18:23

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» I am 100% absolutely sure that using the PGD2 blockers has completely
» stopped my hair loss. Before using it any time that I would rub my head
» over a sheet of paper I would lose 10-20 hairs. Now I lose 0 hairs. Im my
» prime, a few years ago I would rub my head and lose 50 hairs.

It's seriously impressive that you've stopped your hair loss.

One thing I would like you to know is that I have seen multiple studies that show that adding minoxidil to antiandrogens improves the amount of hair regrowth patient's get plus it speeds up the process of regrowing hair. Minoxidil works by stimulating hair growth rather than by anti-androgenic activity. You might wonder why I'm talking about anti-androgens when you are using the PG model to try to reverse your hair loss, but keep in mind that we are all operating under the impression that the PG system affects hair growth/loss downstream of anti-androgen synthesis. In other words, it's androgen synthesis that causes these changes to your PG system and the changes in your PG system in turn causes you to lose hair.

Based on the idea that 1) the PG system alteration that causes hair to be lost is downstream of androgen synthesis, 2) that using minoxidil in combo with anti-androgens is more effective at regrowing lost hair than only using anti-androgens, 3) and that minoxidil does not work by anti-androgenic activity rather it works by stimulating hair growth, I'm extrapolating that using a PGD2 blocker (as you are doing) would be more effective if you do something to stimulate hair growth.

Dutasteride is NOT a hair growth stimulator; it's a subcategory of the anti-androgens. You already have that base covered with the PGD2 blocker so you can add dutasteride if you like but it might be overkill.

Since adding a growth stimulator to antiandrogens not only speeds up the process of hair regrowth but also causes more hair regrowth I think you should add a hair growth stimulator.

PGE2 has been shown to stimulate hair growth, Cotseralis says that PGE2 should be increased in order for the PG method to work optimally, and minoxidil theoretically stimulates PGE2, so I would think that somehow you should add PGE2.

But the PGD2 blocker you are using prevents the formation of PGE2 so I think that if you add a new medicine that stimulates the formation of PGE2 that new medicine could be rendered useless because the PGD2 blocker you are using might not allow your new PGE2 stimulating medicine to form PGE2. I think that the best and most certain way to add PGE2 to your regimen would be to add the pure PGE2 itself to your regimen and I think you can get ahold of it and topicalize it. I saw sites that sell it.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

15.11.2012, 18:38

@ alecbaldone

PDG2 blocker ship

» I am 100% absolutely sure that using the PGD2 blockers has completely
» stopped my hair loss. Before using it any time that I would rub my head
» over a sheet of paper I would lose 10-20 hairs. Now I lose 0 hairs. Im my
» prime, a few years ago I would rub my head and lose 50 hairs.


Dutasteride is similar to finasteride except that it's more powerful. Both dutasteride and finasteride work by the same mode of action. Both are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. 5-alpha reductase inhibitors are a subcategory of anti-androgens. This means that both finasteride and dutasteride can be called anti-androgens.

Everyone knows that either dutasteride or finasteride work better with minoxidil. The reason for this is that both dutasteride and finasteride work by a different mode of action than minoxidil. Dutasteride and finasteride remove something (DHT) that causes hair loss, but minoxidil works by stimulating hair growth. When you combine two different drugs that work by two different modes of action you achieve a synergistic effect which is better than either drug alone.

Your PGD2 blocker already removes that which causes hair loss - PGD2 and it's derivatives. You have already accomplished that. What you need to do now is to add something that causes hair growth. The logical thing to add is PGE2 because that is what Cotseralis said to do and because minoxidil theoretically works by increasing PGE2 and because minoxidil improves the results of dutasteride or finasteride.

But you can't simply add minoxidil because the PGD2 blocker you are using could theoretically prevent the minoxidil from stimulating the production of PGE2. I think you should get PGE2 into your scalp but you need to get it into your scalp in a form that is complete - already formed into PGE2. The PGE2 blocker that you are on will prevent your scalp from forming PGE2 but it won't do anything to block PGE2 that is already formed so if you add PGE2 that is already completely formed into PGE2 then your PGD2 blocker will not do anything to prevent that PGE2 from doing its' job. On the other hand, if you add a drug that merely stimulates your scalp to produce PGE2 then the PGD2 blocker that you are already using could prevent the PGE2 stimulator from forming PGE2 since the PGD2 blocker that you are already using prevents the formation of ALL PGs including PGE2.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

alecbaldone

15.11.2012, 18:58

@ jarjarbinx

PDG2 blocker ship

where can I buy PGE2 from? I'll try it. Alec




alecbaldone is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

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