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Hair Loss Forum - Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

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Khalil

03.06.2013, 22:18
(edited by Khalil, 03.06.2013, 22:34)
 

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013) (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/06/03/hair-raising-follica-study-could-point-to-baldness-therapy/


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130602144327.htm



I think this is the real deal. Fingers crossed!




Khalil is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Khalil

04.06.2013, 00:57

@ Khalil

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

Heres the official press Release


http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2013/06/cotsarelis/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+penn-medicine-news+%28Penn+Medicine+News%29




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HairlossCurse

04.06.2013, 01:51

@ Khalil

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

"Follica said in its statement that it has already done preclinical tests that combine devices it has created to disrupt the skin with several unspecified “known and novel drugs.” It also claims to have run “a series” of human clinical trials, including a mid-stage study that has caused new hair follicles to be produced in humans. "

new follicles formed on humans has this been done before? Also I wonder if any of "the series" of trials have been about pdg2/gpr44 this is very exciting indeed.




HairlossCurse is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Khalil

04.06.2013, 01:58

@ HairlossCurse

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

Here's the article in the Journal Nature Medicine.

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nm.3181.html




Khalil is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Freddie555

04.06.2013, 03:55

@ Khalil

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

does it merely generate velus hair or real terminal (head) hair ?

without any details, its as good as pie in the sky.

fgf9 isn't new. why has it taken this long to discover that injecting fpf9 induces follicular neogenesis ?

It would be interesting to see if dr. nigam could inject DS cultured cells along with fgf9. Perhaps the wounding process would be unnecessary altogether - if indeed the above news is fact and not fiction.

lets wait till more details arrive.




Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
"When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001

jarjarbinx

04.06.2013, 04:49

@ Freddie555

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

Freddie, I'm also trying to figure out a way to get away from the wounding thing so tell me why you think that by injecting DS cultured cells along with fgf9 that would possibly allow us to skip the whole wounding thing.


Originally Posted by Freddie555

does it merely generate velus hair or real terminal (head) hair ?

without any details, its as good as pie in the sky.

fgf9 isn't new. why has it taken this long to discover that injecting fpf9 induces follicular neogenesis ?

It would be interesting to see if dr. nigam could inject DS cultured cells along with fgf9. Perhaps the wounding process would be unnecessary altogether - if indeed the above news is fact and not fiction.

lets wait till more details arrive.





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
04.06.2013, 12:07

@ Freddie555

Cautiously optimistic

I'm cautiously optimistic about this. For a while it seemed Follica was a dead company. What this means is they MAY have leveraged their idea of "wounding" or abrading the skin into a potentially workable method of generating hair.

I imagine that after they saw their initial research going nowhere, they desperately tried a large number of compounds in conjunction with the wounding, to determine if anything worked. Since Dr. Cotsarelis is their scientific advisor, it's not surprising that he hit upon something.

It's true, there are a lot of details still unanswered. Will it work in humans (not theoretically but actually)? How reliable and consistent will it be? What will the quality of hairs be? What kind of density and cosmetic result can this produce?

These "devices" designed to the wound the skin are all part of Follica's intellectual property strategy.

While you can defend a patent for a medical device or a drug, you can't defend a patent for a medical procedure, since a law was passed in 1996 banning patent protections for medical procedures in the US. So that means, for example, if a doctor invents a new type of hair transplant, or a new type of heart transplant, the medical procedure itself cannot be protected.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

dcssalman

04.06.2013, 12:30

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

Very informatic post lot of things to learn for




dcssalman is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
04.06.2013, 12:31

@ jarjarbinx

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

Freddie, I'm also trying to figure out a way to get away from the wounding thing so tell me why you think that by injecting DS cultured cells along with fgf9 that would possibly allow us to skip the whole wounding thing.


Originally Posted by Freddie555

does it merely generate velus hair or real terminal (head) hair ?

without any details, its as good as pie in the sky.

fgf9 isn't new. why has it taken this long to discover that injecting fpf9 induces follicular neogenesis ?

It would be interesting to see if dr. nigam could inject DS cultured cells along with fgf9. Perhaps the wounding process would be unnecessary altogether - if indeed the above news is fact and not fiction.

lets wait till more details arrive.

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx


I think that possibly what the wounding does is release just enough growth factors (in the right concentrations) and just enough stem cells to potentially grow new hair. In humans, the only thing missing may be the fgf9 (it is present after wounding in mice).




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

hairman2

04.06.2013, 13:32

@ roger_that

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

If I read correctly however they said that fgf9 doubled the amount of hair growth after wounding which to me does not seem like a whole lot.. I may however be misunderstanding the article.


[quote]
Following up on earlier work, which showed that increased signaling from the Wnt pathway doubled the number of new hair follicles, the Penn team looked further upstream in the pathway and identified an important cascade of signals that prompt further expression, as well as perpetuate and amplify signals sent during a crucial phase of hair-follicle regeneration.

[...]
Conversely, when Fgf9 was increased, there was a two- to three-fold increase in the number of new hair follicles, equal to the amount seen in the mice expressing Wnt. Importantly, when the investigators added Fgf9 back to the wounds that do not normally regenerate, FGF9 triggered the molecular cascade of events necessary for skin and hair regeneration; thus, leaving the door open for using Fgf9 to treat wounds and hair loss in people.

[source] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130602144327.htm




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

04.06.2013, 14:08

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

I wonder if you could wound the donor area like after transplants or something and use fgf9 to generate new follicles which could then be implanted to the recipient area?

I ask this because I doubt if the newly created hair in the recipient area would be resistant to DHT. Or how long the resistance would last.


Originally Posted by hairman2

If I read correctly however they said that fgf9 doubled the amount of hair growth after wounding which to me does not seem like a whole lot.. I may however be misunderstanding the article.


[quote]
Following up on earlier work, which showed that increased signaling from the Wnt pathway doubled the number of new hair follicles, the Penn team looked further upstream in the pathway and identified an important cascade of signals that prompt further expression, as well as perpetuate and amplify signals sent during a crucial phase of hair-follicle regeneration.

[...]
Conversely, when Fgf9 was increased, there was a two- to three-fold increase in the number of new hair follicles, equal to the amount seen in the mice expressing Wnt. Importantly, when the investigators added Fgf9 back to the wounds that do not normally regenerate, FGF9 triggered the molecular cascade of events necessary for skin and hair regeneration; thus, leaving the door open for using Fgf9 to treat wounds and hair loss in people.

[source] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130602144327.htm[/div]




hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoneWithTheHair

Australia,
04.06.2013, 14:12

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

hairman2, you might be missing the overall point a bit. they are growing brand new follicles which is HUGE news. And they're achieving it in humans (not mice) in the clinical trial. Who knows how many times you can wound and repeat the procedure and essentially get the result you need.

The cure seems to be here from what I've read from the articles.




GoneWithTheHair is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: NO

GoneWithTheHair

Australia,
04.06.2013, 14:15

@ GoneWithTheHair

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

another link of the news.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-identifies-the-role-of-a-key-growth-factor-in-promoting-formation-of-hair-follicles-and-suggests-a-new-therapeutic-approach-to-treat-baldness-209914441.html




GoneWithTheHair is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: NO

oppenheimer82

04.06.2013, 14:24

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

it has been performed on human beings, in fact, phase IIA trials have been completed.




oppenheimer82 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

oppenheimer82

04.06.2013, 14:27

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

thousands of created wounds (and a wound does not have to be big ;) ) + fgf9 (mimetic) will create thousands upon thousands new hair follicles. now, if that is not groundbreaking stuff right here, i don't know what is.




oppenheimer82 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

04.06.2013, 15:28

@ roger_that

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

I hope you're right Roger_that. If you're right then some growth factors and some fgf9 and hair cells gives us our hair back.


I think that possibly what the wounding does is release just enough growth factors (in the right concentrations) and just enough stem cells to potentially grow new hair. In humans, the only thing missing may be the fgf9 (it is present after wounding in mice).





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

04.06.2013, 19:16

@ oppenheimer82

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

where are you getting this from?

how do you know which size the wounds need to be?
how do you know that they have grown thousands and thousands of hairs?

we've had overenthusiastic people bringing up false hopes like this much too often... lets keep our expectations realistic this time?

Originally Posted by oppenheimer82

thousands of created wounds (and a wound does not have to be big ;) ) + fgf9 (mimetic) will create thousands upon thousands new hair follicles. now, if that is not groundbreaking stuff right here, i don't know what is.





hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Rob35

04.06.2013, 19:57

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

In my opinion fgf9 can be that missing link from the mouse to human. We know that many things were working on mouse but not on humans. Maybe it was because of fgf9. Maybe not just wounding but any treatment that was working on mice now will work on humans if you include fgf9.




Rob35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
04.06.2013, 23:22

@ oppenheimer82

I think trial was about skin wounding, not Fgf9

Did the trials specifically involve testing Fgf9?

Or were they just generalized trials that showed some follicular neogenesis from wounding the skin?

Here's what the article says:

"This discovery sheds light on a novel mechanism to regenerate hair follicles and opens an exciting new avenue to develop treatments for hair loss in humans," noted Dr. William Ju of Follica, Inc. "Follica has developed a technology platform that is uniquely suited to support clinical translation of these new findings. The Follica platform can be used to induce skin reepithelialization, which creates a "window of opportunity" during which the Fgf9 pathway could be modulated to potentiate hair neogenesis.

"Follica has conducted preclinical testing of proprietary device configurations for skin disruption in combination with a number of known and novel drugs. The company has run a series of human clinical trials, including a Phase IIa trial, which have demonstrated follicular neogenesis in humans for the first time. These trials pave the way for the development of a breakthrough combination of a device to produce targeted skin perturbation coupled with a well-studied drug compound."


You have to be very careful reading stuff like this. I see that they conducted a Phase IIa clinical trial, but did they specifically test Fgf9 in that trial, or is this a brand new discovery by Dr. Cotsarelis? I don't see where they explicitly state that the trial involved testing of Fgf9.

This article seems to be conflating several different things that Follica has done, with some things they plan to do. To me, it seems calculated to lift the value of their share price or to position them for further financing. One never can tell with announcements like this. Is Follica even a publicly-traded company?

If they've completed Phase IIa clinical trials, where are the results? Were they ever reported before? Are they referring to the trials they supposedly conducted in Germany?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

oppenheimer82

05.06.2013, 00:13

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

relax dude ;) , i just was thinking out loud. when they wound the skin and applied a fgf9 mimetic, they saw a 2 and/or 3 fold increase in the birth of hair follicles. so basically, thousands of little wounds spread all over the scalp, would yield in a massive increase in hair follicles. i never said that dr cots and his team already achieved this feat, i hope you understand now.




oppenheimer82 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

05.06.2013, 00:33

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

I wonder if you could wound the donor area like after transplants or something and use fgf9 to generate new follicles which could then be implanted to the recipient area?

I ask this because I doubt if the newly created hair in the recipient area would be resistant to DHT. Or how long the resistance would last.

Originally Posted by hairman2


Follica thinks it will be resistant, but they haven't clarified why. In their patents they have a few creative ideas on how to make it resistant - they've thought of using estrogen as a topical after the wound to "birth" "female hairs".

Even if they're not DHT resistant....fin?




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 05:19

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

Did the news indicate that they are preparing to move into phase 2b with FGF9 as part of the hair loss treatment? If FGF9 is part of the hair loss treatment, and the treatment is moving into phase 2b, doesn't that mean that FGF9 has already had some human testing? I don't think you can go from initial discovery to a phase 2b human study without some studies in-between.


Originally Posted by roger_that

I'm cautiously optimistic about this. For a while it seemed Follica was a dead company. What this means is they MAY have leveraged their idea of "wounding" or abrading the skin into a potentially workable method of generating hair.

I imagine that after they saw their initial research going nowhere, they desperately tried a large number of compounds in conjunction with the wounding, to determine if anything worked. Since Dr. Cotsarelis is their scientific advisor, it's not surprising that he hit upon something.

It's true, there are a lot of details still unanswered. Will it work in humans (not theoretically but actually)? How reliable and consistent will it be? What will the quality of hairs be? What kind of density and cosmetic result can this produce?

These "devices" designed to the wound the skin are all part of Follica's intellectual property strategy.

While you can defend a patent for a medical device or a drug, you can't defend a patent for a medical procedure, since a law was passed in 1996 banning patent protections for medical procedures in the US. So that means, for example, if a doctor invents a new type of hair transplant, or a new type of heart transplant, the medical procedure itself cannot be protected.





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

05.06.2013, 06:56

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

This article seems to be conflating several different things that Follica has done, with some things they plan to do. To me, it seems calculated to lift the value of their share price or to position them for further financing. One never can tell with announcements like this. Is Follica even a publicly-traded company?


Welcome to about 2008. Every time a Follica discussion comes up after a long silence we have to go over this subject again - Follica is a privately funded company and has no incentive to worry about the public perception of their worth.


Having said all that, I agree with the sentiment that not as much is being said here as it might seem.

I hear the same thing we've been hearing/deducing about Follica for 5+ years now. They plan to superficially wound the skin + apply some existing drug = new hair follicles. This release says they are still moving forward on that original basic idea and not much more.


If this discussion proceeds like the topic usually does, there will be a lot of talk of doing this ourselves at home, and a lot of worry/talk about the skin-wounding step. It isn't that big of a deal. They wound (read: scrape, "dermabrade" etc) the skin just enough to turn it red/raw (but no blood) and it heals itself without scarring in a few weeks. The specific method of doing it is not all that crucial. It's not that terrible of a thing to go through either.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

05.06.2013, 07:29

@ cal

Cautiously optimistic

I agree that not much has been said here that is new, but I think the broader point is- the firm may not be dead yet, as many, including myself have assumed, AND, they still continue to see potential in their protocol.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jimmy

05.06.2013, 08:26

@ KO

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)



Originally Posted by KO



Follica thinks it will be resistant, but they haven't clarified why. In their patents they have a few creative ideas on how to make it resistant - they've thought of using estrogen as a topical after the wound to "birth" "female hairs".

Even if they're not DHT resistant....fin?



The concept of 'female hair' is ridiculous. I'd personally be absolutely fine with needing a 5AR inhibitor, but something tells me that the legions of irrational finaphobes won't quite share that sentiment :-P




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HairlossCurse

05.06.2013, 08:51

@ jimmy

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

It is irrelevant whether or not they tested fgf9 or lithium.

What we do know is

A. They were able to create new hairs on human heads
B. They are running are series of clinical tests, one of which could be pdg2/gpr44 related.
C. The significance of fgf9 is known to them and will be used in future for sure


More on B - they said they were doing a lot of work on topical formulations, Cotsarelis heavily emphasized that his AGA related treatments would be topical. Wounding creates new follicles where as in AGA all that is needed is reactivatin of stem cells.

Wounding + fgf9 + more for scarring types of hairloss
Topical formulations for AGA(non-scarring)

Or maybe if the new follicles created by the wounding are somehow AGA-resistant then it could work for AGA as well

Wounding + fgf9 + pdg2/gpr44 blockers perhaps.




HairlossCurse is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
05.06.2013, 12:25

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

That's why it isn't clear to me that the human testing they've done actually involved Fgf9. If you read the Wall St. Journal article very carefully, they talk about Dr. Cotsarelis' findings on Fgf9, they talk about a Follica "human Phase IIa trial", but they do not specifically say the human trial involved Fgf9.

It does say the University of Pennsylvania licensed the discovery to Follica, but it doesn't clearly say that Follica has actually tested this on humans yet.

Think about it: If Follica had already completed some phase of human trials involving Fgf9, then wouldn't there be some results they could report, to say clearly, "Here's what we found Fgf9 can do in humans"? Where are those results?

It seems to me the Cotsarelis findings on Fgf9 came after Follica finished its human trial. If that's true, how could they have tested Fgf9 on humans?

Sometimes these articles are very cleverly written to imply certain things, and then people read into them what they want to see.

I believe they are referring to the one trial that Follica has announced, which evidently took place in Germany. I have seen no other announcements of any Follica human trials anywhere -- have you?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

roger_that

MARYLAND,
05.06.2013, 12:47
(edited by roger_that, 05.06.2013, 13:04)

@ cal

Cautiously optimistic

True -- thanks, cal. I had actually forgotten because I had lost all interest in Follica. But, technically like any startup, they're still almost constantly seeking investors, even if it's not on the stock market. And technically they are still a startup, because they're not yet selling a product. What they print in the WSJ does count in attracting a flow of cash, even if it's private equity.

I want really bad to believe in this, as I'm normally a realistic optimist, but the pessimistic side of me proposes this scenario:

All these "discoveries" by Dr. Cotsarelis (PGD2, Fgf9, etc.) may just be the result of his desperately testing out a huge number of different known compounds, sequentially, with a major goal being to keep the flow of money to his lab, and/or to pump up Follica by attracting new investors.

If he tests 100 or 1000 different compounds, obviously some will tend to increase hair growth (in mice or whatever) more than others. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're growing a lot of hair, or that they can grow a lot of hair on a human head.

Maybe PGD2 and Fgf9 are just two of the ones at the top of the list.

But that doesn't mean they really grow a lot of hair -- it just means they grow MORE hair than all the other possibly hundreds of compounds he's tested.

The rest falls together as PR and spin. You take that comparative result, and then sell it to the media as a potential "cure", like a "silver bullet", but all you really have is a couple of compounds that scored better than average at growing a little bit of hair in mouse tests.

Actually, I'm more optimistic, long-run, about PGD2, because the science seems to connect a lot of things (e.g. the centrality of prostaglandin metabolism to the hair cycle), and involves more than just that one Cotsarelis study (its connection with DHT is actually proven and demonstrated by people other than Cotsarelis).




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

AntiNorwood

05.06.2013, 13:01

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

The research paper "Fgf9 from dermal γδ T cells induces hair follicle neogenesis after wounding" was published 3 days ago. It was received by Nature Medicine in January of this year. The research paper is about FGF9 wound-induced hair neogenesis in mice, not humans. Since mice studies come before human studies I think its safe to say human studies have not yet taken place. Well at least officially.




AntiNorwood is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
05.06.2013, 13:11

@ AntiNorwood

Cautiously optimistic

Originally Posted by AntiNorwood

The research paper "Fgf9 from dermal γδ T cells induces hair follicle neogenesis after wounding" was published 3 days ago. It was received by Nature Medicine in January of this year. The research paper is about FGF9 wound-induced hair neogenesis in mice, not humans. Since mice studies come before human studies I think its safe to say human studies have not yet taken place. Well at least officially.


Thanks, AntiNorwood. That confirms exactly what I thought.

Notice, though, how the WSJ article seemed to try to imply that the Follica human trial involved Fgf9, without stating it?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

superhl

05.06.2013, 13:23

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

Sure hope he is not just seeking attention. Seems like he comes out every once in a while with something new and then goes away. Just saying......




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HairlossCurse

05.06.2013, 14:20

@ superhl

Cautiously optimistic

I have a feeling Follica will release all of their clinical data at once or at least a significant amount of it at one time.

It seems to be a technique used by Cotsarelis which is quite successful

Cotsarelis did the study of comparing bald vs non-bald scalp using gene comparison etc back in 2007 as it is documented in his patent. Both the lack of progenitor cells and pdg2 elevation as well as other pro-growth genes were documented. Yet he only published his results in 2011(stem cells maintained) and 2012(pdg2). One year after each other were I even remember him saying "look where we have gone in just a year"

Best case Scenario: He is setting up for a out of the blue breakthrough/cure/near cure.

Worst case Scenario: He does it to get more funding/attention.




HairlossCurse is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

05.06.2013, 14:44

@ HairlossCurse

Cautiously optimistic

Nobody knows why there's a 5 year delay between patent and paper, but it's ludicrous to think that they're slow. They went from initial paper to Phase 2 trial in 3 years, which is very very fast.

You have to keep in mind that the next step is going to have to be a P3 trial, and before that they're going to have to make sure this stuff works, and will continue experimenting with a number of pathways, and the discoveries of PGD2 and FGF9 very much tie into this procedure. Phase 3 is the big dance, and before that they need to get everything right.

If Follica does raise money in a new round of financing, they're back in the game because that likely implies a new clinical trial.




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jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 15:11

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

Follica holds its' cards close to the vest. I read somewhere that Cots has had this FGF9 info for a long time.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 15:17

@ AntiNorwood

Cautiously optimistic

Would it be possible for Follica to release a study about FGF9 in connection with mice now and to have also done some early human studies with FGF9 and not release that information? Follica has a peculair secretive personality. I read somewhere that Cots has had this info about FGF9 for quite a while.

Cots's new FGF9 study is released about the time new info coming from competitors, for example, the new Histogen final phase 2 results.

I can't figure Cots/Follica out.



Originally Posted by AntiNorwood

The research paper "Fgf9 from dermal γδ T cells induces hair follicle neogenesis after wounding" was published 3 days ago. It was received by Nature Medicine in January of this year. The research paper is about FGF9 wound-induced hair neogenesis in mice, not humans. Since mice studies come before human studies I think its safe to say human studies have not yet taken place. Well at least officially.





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TheThing

05.06.2013, 16:19

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

Literally away from all hair forums for a few days then all this news breaks..

Can anyone link me to the actual Phase2a trials. It stated in the reports they are in clinical trials tho i cant find them anywhere. i could be really stupid and have missed them..




TheThing is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

05.06.2013, 17:47

@ HairlossCurse

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

some interesting thoughts HairlossCure... would be cool if they were pursuing PGD2 in a clinical environment..

if they have an ongoing clinical trial, wouldn't there be some descriptive data available in the official trial registries?

Originally Posted by HairlossCurse

It is irrelevant whether or not they tested fgf9 or lithium.

What we do know is

A. They were able to create new hairs on human heads
B. They are running are series of clinical tests, one of which could be pdg2/gpr44 related.
C. The significance of fgf9 is known to them and will be used in future for sure


More on B - they said they were doing a lot of work on topical formulations, Cotsarelis heavily emphasized that his AGA related treatments would be topical. Wounding creates new follicles where as in AGA all that is needed is reactivatin of stem cells.

Wounding + fgf9 + more for scarring types of hairloss
Topical formulations for AGA(non-scarring)

Or maybe if the new follicles created by the wounding are somehow AGA-resistant then it could work for AGA as well

Wounding + fgf9 + pdg2/gpr44 blockers perhaps.





hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

05.06.2013, 17:56

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

*sigh*

you mentioned this in your post above. Why on earth do you feel the urge to repeat yourself is beyond me.

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx

Follica holds its' cards close to the vest. I read somewhere that Cots has had this FGF9 info for a long time.





hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 18:24
(edited by jarjarbinx, 05.06.2013, 18:55)

@ hairman2

Cautiously optimistic

Because I can. Now you know why I did this. Are you happy now?


*sigh*

you mentioned this in your post above. Why on earth do you feel the urge to repeat yourself is beyond me.

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx

Follica holds its' cards close to the vest. I read somewhere that Cots has had this FGF9 info for a long time.

Originally Posted by hairman2





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Rob35

05.06.2013, 18:30

@ hairman2

Cautiously optimistic

It is my understanding that the compound they are planing to use has already passed the trial for safety for another thing. Follica might have held additional small trial to prove the hypothesized mechanism of action which amounts to finishing 2a trials which they say they did by regenerating new follicles and they are sure of that.




Rob35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Rob35

05.06.2013, 19:33

@ Rob35

Cautiously optimistic

So basically we talked about this in 2010 http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-68219.html
here is the patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2010056759A1.html




Rob35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 20:40

@ hairman2

Cautiously optimistic

I did it because I can. I just did it again. Are you happy now?


*sigh*

you mentioned this in your post above. Why on earth do you feel the urge to repeat yourself is beyond me.

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx

Follica holds its' cards close to the vest. I read somewhere that Cots has had this FGF9 info for a long time.

Originally Posted by hairman2





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

hairman2

05.06.2013, 22:23

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

Of course you did it again because it is compulsive behavior, over which I genuinely believe, you have no control. It is probably a direct result of your underlying mental illness. You have bigger problems than hair loss - attend to them.

I did it because I can. I just did it again. Are you happy now?
Originally Posted by jarjarbinx





hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 22:29

@ hairman2

Cautiously optimistic

I see that you are exercising and enjoying the right I bestowed upon you to have a wrong opinion. Good for you.


Of course you did it again because it is compulsive behavior, over which I genuinely believe, you have no control. It is probably a direct result of your underlying mental illness. You have bigger problems than hair loss - attend to them.

I did it because I can. I just did it again. Are you happy now?
Originally Posted by jarjarbinx


Originally Posted by hairman2





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

ilkh

UK,
05.06.2013, 22:50

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

Back to the matter at hand, how long do we think untill this is available to the public?




ilkh is located in UK and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.06.2013, 23:08

@ ilkh

Cautiously optimistic

You'll have to forgive Hairman for his inability to stay on point and personal attacks. The stress from baldness is getting to him in a big way.

That aside, FGF9 is already available. You can get human FGF9 right now. I can tell you with certainty that there are people experimenting with it for hair loss right now. Let a few months go by and then let's see if any new information develops.


Originally Posted by ilkh

Back to the matter at hand, how long do we think untill this is available to the public?





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

ilkh

UK,
05.06.2013, 23:32

@ jarjarbinx

Cautiously optimistic

thanks jarjar, I will have to apologies im new to these forums! When you say people are experimenting now do you mean the follica people? Do we think this is likely to restore a full head of hair or will it restore little more than proprcia




ilkh is located in UK and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

06.06.2013, 00:31

@ ilkh

Cautiously optimistic

I don't know what FGF9 is going to do yet. I do know that you are at the right place to keep abreast of things. There are people besides Follica experimenting with FGF9 and other things that might ameliorate the problem. Some of the people doing these experiments are regular blokes like you and me and some are clinicians. If someone makes a breakthrough it will be posted.


Originally Posted by ilkh

thanks jarjar, I will have to apologies im new to these forums! When you say people are experimenting now do you mean the follica people? Do we think this is likely to restore a full head of hair or will it restore little more than proprcia





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
06.06.2013, 00:50

@ KO

Cautiously optimistic

If there was such a delay, then Cotsarelis would have technically been ready to announce the PGD2 findings at the same time as the Fgf9 findings. It almost looks like he spaced out the announcements so one wouldn't interfere with the other.

If he announced them both at once then people would say, "Huh??!! You mean you have two different potential cures for MPB?"

If he did that, any funding benefit accorded to one would be partially cancelled out by the other one pulling investors away.

Follica apparently has no role (at least publicly announced) in the PGD2 thing, as other companies are developing prescription PGD2 blockers.

It looks like Cotsarelis intentionally keeps his fingers in multiple pies.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

jarjarbinx

06.06.2013, 01:00

@ roger_that

Cautiously optimistic

I agree.


Originally Posted by roger_that

If there was such a delay, then Cotsarelis would have technically been ready to announce the PGD2 findings at the same time as the Fgf9 findings. It almost looks like he spaced out the announcements so one wouldn't interfere with the other.

If he announced them both at once then people would say, "Huh??!! You mean you have two different potential cures for MPB?"

If he did that, any funding benefit accorded to one would be partially cancelled out by the other one pulling investors away.

Follica apparently has no role (at least publicly announced) in the PGD2 thing, as other companies are developing prescription PGD2 blockers.

It looks like Cotsarelis intentionally keeps his fingers in multiple pies.





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

06.06.2013, 02:01

@ hairman2

Dr. Cotsarelis New Discovery that may finally cure Baldness (June 3rd, 2013)

That's right Hairman, you go girl. Get him. Don't just disagree with him; make it personal.

Where are you from Hairman? I want to be sure to stay out of any country that would spawn the likes of you.



where are you getting this from?

how do you know which size the wounds need to be?
how do you know that they have grown thousands and thousands of hairs?

we've had overenthusiastic people bringing up false hopes like this much too often... lets keep our expectations realistic this time?

Originally Posted by oppenheimer82

thousands of created wounds (and a wound does not have to be big ;) ) + fgf9 (mimetic) will create thousands upon thousands new hair follicles. now, if that is not groundbreaking stuff right here, i don't know what is.

Originally Posted by hairman2





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

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