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Hair Loss Forum - DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for treating hair loss, baldness

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jarjarbinx

07.12.2013, 23:37
 

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for treating hair loss, baldness (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

Vraf please start posting in this thread.

Everyone please, let's stay on topic about Pilox and let's not do any attacks.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 00:28

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

first of all: vraf, what is the reason why the pilox method seems to be such a secret? do we have to take care about what we are talking here? can you ask yoram where the limits of discussion are? i guess, there will arise some questions related to follica very quickly. there are rumours about their patents etc.
to make and end to this: can you ask yoram about these things? does he get problems when we mention patents, follica etc.? is the pilox method in danger because of patent stuff? we should know these facts to know if we can talk freely and ask all sorts of questions (if we get answers to all our questions is up to you then)

thx for your efforts




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 00:52

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

* How many phases of studies are there in Israel? In America there are phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3. Each one typically lasts at least one year?


* Also, what phase study is the treatment in at this time?


* And how much longer until it completes testing so we can purchase it?


* Also, is there a reason why he won't sell the treatment now from a country that will allow him to do so? There are countries that have little or no regulation and he could start selling it from one of those countries immediately if he so chooses.


* Why did they abandon Pillox 2, Pillox 3, and Pillox 4?


* Is he just now starting Pillox 5 and if he is do we have to wait years before it's marketed and we can use it?


* Some of us in America would be interested in trying it now or within a few months if it really is effective. Some of us are very sick of being bald and waiting for relief. Some of us would like to find out right away if it works and if it does we would like to get it right away. We are sick of the damage bald is doing to our lives.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
08.12.2013, 01:01

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Jarjar, Aka1, who lives in Israel, is saying he doesn't think the testing of this device is being conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health... in other words, these are informal clinical trials, as opposed to formal ones.

They might not even be real clinical trials per se, at all. Instead, it might be just Pilogics giving out the device to people to test for themselves.

Which raises questions of the legality of the whole thing.

The problem is, if they don't conduct these tests in a legal way, the testing may be invalid, and Pilogics may not get approval to sell the device eventually.

If the Israeli MOH finds out about it (officially), they may have to ask Pilogics to either formally register for clinical trials, or scrap the project and stop distributing the device. Sad but true.

I'm just sayin'...




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 01:05

@ roger_that

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Disconcerting. Although it is possible that whatever treatment they're using would not require official testing conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health, but that's not likely is it?


Originally Posted by roger_that

Jarjar, Aka1, who lives in Israel, is saying he doesn't think the testing of this device is being conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health... in other words, these are informal clinical trials, as opposed to formal ones.

They might not even be real clinical trials per se, at all. Instead, it might be just Pilogics giving out the device to people to test for themselves.

Which raises questions of the legality of the whole thing.

The problem is, if they don't conduct these tests in a legal way, they may be invalid, and they may not get approval to sell th e device eventually.

If the Israeli MOH finds out about it (officially), they may have to ask Pilogics to either formally register for clinical trials, or scrap the project and stop distributing the device. Sad but true.

I'm just sayin'...





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
08.12.2013, 01:08

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Disconcerting. Although it is possible that whatever treatment they're using would not require official testing conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health, but that's not likely is it?


I guess it's possible, but I really doubt it. Come on, injuring the skin, putting copper ion solutions and other chemicals into the skin? In the US there is no doubt that this would require close FDA oversight.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

brunobald

08.12.2013, 01:17

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Vraf, thanks for updating us. Do you have any progress pics you would be willing to share?

What is your hairloss background, have you treated your hairloss before with fin or other drugs. How old are you now and how long have you been losing your hair. What are you on the Norwood scale and what sort of results are you seeing, for example are you seeing regrowth of areas that have been bald for years or just a general thickening of existing hair shafts. Hope to hear from you soon and best of luck with the treatment, I hope this is what we have all been waiting for! Cheers




brunobald is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

aka1

08.12.2013, 01:24

@ roger_that

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

please, do not overthink things!
even if the trials aren't official or sanctioned or whatever, it doesn't mean that they will automatically be stopped or forbidden. the health ministry/regulators are not aware of every single thing done by every single person in the country, and they might not even care unless someone places a complaint or something goes awfully wrong.
there is a good chance that Yoram does not legally have to report the trials to anyone. as per the US and FDA, maybe that is a different story, but again, lets not get ahead of ourselves... first lets see if this really works like claimed, AND ONLY THEN if the cure is really found, i'm sure everybody here will be able to get their hands on it somehow, regardless if it gets approved in the way it is supposed to be.
lets focus on finding out if it works first!




aka1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

chris

08.12.2013, 01:35

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

what device is this? this just came out of nowhere. some links please




chris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

needhairasap

08.12.2013, 07:19

@ aka1

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Originally Posted by aka1

first lets see if this really works like claimed, AND ONLY THEN if the cure is really found, i'm sure everybody here will be able to get their hands on it somehow, regardless if it gets approved in the way it is supposed to be.
lets focus on finding out if it works first!


+1




needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

vraf

08.12.2013, 16:38

@ needhairasap

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Hi Guys,

Sorry or the delay with answers, I had to wait for Yoram answers.
Although Yoram gave answers to brunobald, he didn’t know it will be published and the restrictions about revealing the knowledge still exist.
You must understand guys that the Pilogics partnership did not want this story to be published till the product will be available for marketing.
They know that the word has already spread but they still want to keep most of the details in secret.
Therefore, I was asked, again, to be very restrict with the data and talk mostly on my personal experience.
Any issue, which will have the potential of revealing harmful data will receive no answer or be sent to Yoram for approval.

YOU ALL MUST TAKE MY ANSWERS IN LIMITS! I’M NOT PILOGICS REPRESENTATIVE NOR ANY OTHER FORMAL SPOKESMAN!
I was just given an approval to share some staff cause I want to give you hope and good filling as I, myself would have wanted to be treated like.

Please forgive my English, it’s not my mother language.
Please be patient with the speed of my posts since I’m making efforts to avoid English mistakes.

In the following, I will try, has much as I can, to tell you about my experience and some answers to your questions:

1. I’m 43 YO, new in the bald staff. I believe, comparing to the Norwood scale, that I’m 3 vortex.
Started using Rogaine 1.5 months before starting to use Piloxll.
I quitted Rogaine 5 days before starting to use Piloxll.
2. Before starting my trial, Yoram shaved 2 spots on my crown, marked them with under skin paint and pictured with a special microscopic camera. My hair was counted per stage (anagen etc.) and 4 days later I passed the same procedure. the trial started only after the second procedure.
3. I’m using the Piloxll 3 times a day, 5 minutes on the crown and 5 minutes on the front. The protocol is only 5 minutes on all scalp 3 times a week. But… the more proven to be better.
4. The device is very easy to use and can be used during lots of other activities like watching television.
5. There are no side effects at all! Hundreds of trail users reported no side effects.
6. The device is a very high-tech instrument. Since I’m in a trial, I have the latest prototype which has further functionalities like recording every treatment that I do and the feedbacks it receives from my scalp. This functionality will not be in market device. There are so many hidden technology in it so believe me, don’t try to replicate it, it’s a waste of time even trying to follow the patent will not help..
7. Although I take picture of my scalp every few days, I’m not allowed to share them with you, yet. Maybe I will receive approval in the future, it’s in discussion. I can tell you that I see more thickness and even fuzzes in the front side which didn’t grow hair for years.

For some question you asked:
1. Pilogics has nothing to do with Polica! Pilogics has an approved patent which its idea building blocks started many many years ago. In my opinion, they didn’t even know about them till they read about the comparison in the forums.
2. “How many phases of studies are there in Israel?” – I’m not allowed to share this information.
3. “Also, what phase study is the treatment in at this time?” - I’m not allowed to share this information.
4. “And how much longer until it completes testing so we can purchase it?” -The current tests has nothing to do with marketing. The product will be out in a year. Maximum.
5. “Also, is there a reason why he won't sell the treatment now from a country that will allow him to do so?” - No one said that he is not allowed to sell right now. Selling is not pending only on regulation.
6. “Why did they abandon Pillox 2, Pillox 3, and Pillox 4?” – They did not abandon, every product has a “Product developing evolution”.
7. “Is he just now starting Pillox 5 and if he is do we have to wait years before it's marketed and we can use it?” – In a year.

Sorry if I missed a question, you may keep posting questions and I promise to do my best to give you answers.




vraf is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

needhairasap

08.12.2013, 17:06

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

this sounds like the real deal

thanks so much for keeping us informed vraf. Can\'t express how much we all appreciate it. You should consider joining the stop aga forum


This is just as I suspected. I dont want to say I told you say rogerthat, but, I told you so.




needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

brunobald

08.12.2013, 17:11

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Thanks Vraf.

Will this new product be affordable for the average man?




brunobald is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

vraf

08.12.2013, 17:28

@ brunobald

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Originally Posted by brunobald

Thanks Vraf.

Will this new product be affordable for the average man?


Very affordable!




vraf is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

needhairasap

08.12.2013, 17:42

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Originally Posted by brunobald

Thanks Vraf.

Will this new product be affordable for the average man?

Originally Posted by vraf


Very affordable!



out in a year and affordable!??

unbelievable!

HT doctors are in a very scary place-- they'll only be good for hairlines and touchups now.




needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 18:41

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

hey vraf,

if pilogics is safe in the meaning of patents and has nothing to worry about the competition, and the product will be out in a year, can you ask yoram when the first details will get public? i mean, setting up a website with basic information about the device, availability and so on. if yoram plans to start these steps within, let's say the next 6 months, we could probably wait for it and don't have to fire all these questions on you :-) it's only hard for all of us if there is nothing out there to follow, and even have to treat this conversation like a secret... it's like a phantom we are talking of :-)




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 18:46

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

also vraf, please ask yoram if you can share the following an answer to the following, probably most important detail: does the device wound the skin at all? if so, how deep? does it hurt? is there a total redness afterwards or what? or is it more vibration, electro pulses or something like that?
i was just wondering as you said it's easy to use, and can even be used while whatching tv... that sounds really comfortable




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 18:50

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

i could imagine that the device is something like a portable iontophoresis device which forces some copper ions to circulate through the scalp by electrical pulses. this would be a real high tech gadget, if it would even work without wounding (which of i'm mostly scared of)




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

licht

08.12.2013, 19:06

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Do you think it would be easy to use for people with long or very curly hair? I mean for example, a dermaroller is not easy to use unless your hair is quite short.




licht is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mell

08.12.2013, 19:35

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Vraf---Could you ask if the device could help regrow hair on someone who has been bald on top for over 20 years. If you used the device 3 times a week for a year do they think it could help start to regrow hair. Thanks again Nick




mell is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 19:50

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

I'm not scared of wounding myself at all as long as it's not too deep.



Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo

hey vraf,

if pilogics is safe in the meaning of patents and has nothing to worry about the competition, and the product will be out in a year, can you ask yoram when the first details will get public? i mean, setting up a website with basic information about the device, availability and so on. if yoram plans to start these steps within, let's say the next 6 months, we could probably wait for it and don't have to fire all these questions on you :-) it's only hard for all of us if there is nothing out there to follow, and even have to treat this conversation like a secret... it's like a phantom we are talking of :-)





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 19:52

@ mell

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

also: is the device aimed to rejuvenate existing hairs or to induce new hair at bald spots (like e.g. follica claims,by their wounding method, neogenesis)? or does rejuvenate AND induce follicle neogenesis as well?




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 20:01
(edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 20:34)

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

* Vraf, thanks for answering some of my questions. I do want to run one of these issues by you again worded differently because Roger_that has raised a similar issue and I would like you to see the issue he raised. Please open this link:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-125301-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

* Roger_that's question comes from a different thread at this same site so our discussion is not being taken out of this site.

* His question is similar to some of the issues I raised, which you said you can't answer at this time. Could you please discuss with Yoram that some of us are concerned about the possibility that the Israeli regulators could prevent the treatment from being marketed if the treatment requires regulatory approval. I hope the treatment does not require regulatory approval because regulators can prevent a treatment from coming to market if a treatment that requires their approval in order to be marketed does not first get their approval.

* But if a treatment is not very invasive or risky, regulatory agencies could ignore it for a long time. Even here in America where regulation is very tough, unapproved treatments sometimes get into the marketplace for years before regulators notice or care. Regulatory agencies have limited budgets and they can't monitor and control everything.

* Here's a story about how it took the FDA decades to ban a drug that had been on the market for those decads:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110324/02181913605/fda-suddenly-bans-drugs-that-have-been-market-decades.shtml

* Here's another story about how there are thousands of treatments on the market that are unapproved. The FDA simply can't keep up with all of it on it's limited budget and manpower:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/25/news/sc-dc-0226-unapproved-drugs-20110226

* I agree that the number 1 issue is whether or not it works and if it's safe, but I also hope they have a plan regards to the regulatory agency. Although I do understand that it could be marketed for years before a regulatory agency decided to start the process to remove it from the market.

*I read about a cellular-injection treatment called Isolagen to treat wrinkles. It was on the US market for 3 years before the FDA asked the company to consider doing FDA sanctioned clinical trials. The company agreed and took it off the market while the company processed clinical trials. The treatment is now back on the market. It's called Laviv and it's sold by Fibrocell. Like I said, they were marketing in the US for years as Isolagen until the FDA asked the company to do clinical trials. The FDA didn't even order them to do the clinical trials, but if the company had declined the FDA's request then the FDA would likely have considered ordering them to do the trials.

* Also, if it will be available within a year is there any chance that some of us could get our hands on it sooner? If it is working for you then perhaps those of us who would be interested in trying it now could purchase it now or in the next few months. I'm sure some of us would be interested.





Originally Posted by vraf

Hi Guys,

Sorry or the delay with answers, I had to wait for Yoram answers.
Although Yoram gave answers to brunobald, he didn’t know it will be published and the restrictions about revealing the knowledge still exist.
You must understand guys that the Pilogics partnership did not want this story to be published till the product will be available for marketing.
They know that the word has already spread but they still want to keep most of the details in secret.
Therefore, I was asked, again, to be very restrict with the data and talk mostly on my personal experience.
Any issue, which will have the potential of revealing harmful data will receive no answer or be sent to Yoram for approval.

YOU ALL MUST TAKE MY ANSWERS IN LIMITS! I’M NOT PILOGICS REPRESENTATIVE NOR ANY OTHER FORMAL SPOKESMAN!
I was just given an approval to share some staff cause I want to give you hope and good filling as I, myself would have wanted to be treated like.

Please forgive my English, it’s not my mother language.
Please be patient with the speed of my posts since I’m making efforts to avoid English mistakes.

In the following, I will try, has much as I can, to tell you about my experience and some answers to your questions:

1. I’m 43 YO, new in the bald staff. I believe, comparing to the Norwood scale, that I’m 3 vortex.
Started using Rogaine 1.5 months before starting to use Piloxll.
I quitted Rogaine 5 days before starting to use Piloxll.
2. Before starting my trial, Yoram shaved 2 spots on my crown, marked them with under skin paint and pictured with a special microscopic camera. My hair was counted per stage (anagen etc.) and 4 days later I passed the same procedure. the trial started only after the second procedure.
3. I’m using the Piloxll 3 times a day, 5 minutes on the crown and 5 minutes on the front. The protocol is only 5 minutes on all scalp 3 times a week. But… the more proven to be better.
4. The device is very easy to use and can be used during lots of other activities like watching television.
5. There are no side effects at all! Hundreds of trail users reported no side effects.
6. The device is a very high-tech instrument. Since I’m in a trial, I have the latest prototype which has further functionalities like recording every treatment that I do and the feedbacks it receives from my scalp. This functionality will not be in market device. There are so many hidden technology in it so believe me, don’t try to replicate it, it’s a waste of time even trying to follow the patent will not help..
7. Although I take picture of my scalp every few days, I’m not allowed to share them with you, yet. Maybe I will receive approval in the future, it’s in discussion. I can tell you that I see more thickness and even fuzzes in the front side which didn’t grow hair for years.

For some question you asked:
1. Pilogics has nothing to do with Polica! Pilogics has an approved patent which its idea building blocks started many many years ago. In my opinion, they didn’t even know about them till they read about the comparison in the forums.
2. “How many phases of studies are there in Israel?” – I’m not allowed to share this information.
3. “Also, what phase study is the treatment in at this time?” - I’m not allowed to share this information.
4. “And how much longer until it completes testing so we can purchase it?” -The current tests has nothing to do with marketing. The product will be out in a year. Maximum.
5. “Also, is there a reason why he won't sell the treatment now from a country that will allow him to do so?” - No one said that he is not allowed to sell right now. Selling is not pending only on regulation.
6. “Why did they abandon Pillox 2, Pillox 3, and Pillox 4?” – They did not abandon, every product has a “Product developing evolution”.
7. “Is he just now starting Pillox 5 and if he is do we have to wait years before it's marketed and we can use it?” – In a year.

Sorry if I missed a question, you may keep posting questions and I promise to do my best to give you answers.





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Rob35

08.12.2013, 20:34

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Vraf thanx a lot for your answers. This is most exciting news to come for a long time.
I really believe in this product. The reason I believe in this product is because the people associated with it are credible people. I have two questions.
1. The product that you are using now is it more advanced than the product that we saw the results from catalog from hairdressers?
2. Can we buy the product now or do we have to wait? Some of us would have bought the product now if we could.
Thanx for giving us hope again. If ti works the guy deserves a Nobel Prize.




Rob35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 20:36

@ Rob35

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Do you see vraf? Some people want to try it now. People's lives are damaged by hair loss and so they want a way out of their awful situation.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 21:06
(edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 21:50)

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know.




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 21:16
(edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 21:59)

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

* It's not a good idea for you to promise $500 per bald person in exchange for information. You are making unnecessary offers to pay $500 each bald person for information even as the Israeli group is already being kind enough to share information.

* There may be posters who would pay for the treatment now but please do not set any amount at $500 because vraf already stated that the treatment would be "very affordable" so perhaps it won't cost that much.

*Sure we need to figure out if a few of us could try it but you should stop offering hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, because you do not have that much money to pay, and you do not know anyone else would be willing to pay so much. Also, we first need to talk with vraf more to get a better idea of whether or not it works.






Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo

also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know. there will come hundrets of thousand dollars together quicker as he can watch his bank account. i even think, a goal of 1 mio. would be reached so damn fast (e.g. 2000 baldies donate 500 bucks, and there we are). so money should really be no problem here, if there are already impressive (and proven) results with it. almost everybody would pay in advance. so what the f##k is stopping yoram to rule the hairloss world NOW? :-)





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 21:24
(edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 21:56)

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

lol




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 21:34
(edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 22:04)

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Of course we should also be discussing with vraf the possibility of a few of us getting the treatment soon to test for the whole site, but it's too early to set an amount because we don't know if the treatment works and we don't know how much we can raise at this site. We have to keep this discussion within this site.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 21:45
(edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 22:15)

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

jarjar, keep cool. you're overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won't change anything. i wasn't saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first.


let's move on with the important questions and hope to get some news from vraf




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 21:52
(edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 22:08)

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Cool




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 21:54

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

vraf asked that we keep this discussion and the treatment confidential.


Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo

jarjar, keep cool. you're overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won't change anything. i wasn't saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first.
you're talking about destroyed lives and put a lot of drama in your posts, as you would do anything for the device, but then are scared when it comes to donate a few bucks. ( no offense )

let's move on with the important questions and hope to get some news from vraf





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 22:00

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

man, i'll keep it confidential and discrete. we all do. calm down. i also want this device to be real as anyone other.

so let's wait for vraf with the next answers.




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

walrus

08.12.2013, 22:01

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

You should keep this discussion secret like we were advised to do. You should not say anything about this treatment, or this discussion, outside of this site.


Secret? This is a public forum that is crawled by any number of search engine bots. Nothing posted here is secret.




walrus is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 22:06

@ walrus

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

we mean: as confidential as it could be, in the world wide web. anyway: vraf has the permission of yoram already and questions which cannot be answered at this time will remain without an answer. so, it's all ok here. we don't reveal any secret details as long as yoram doesn't allow to. i see no problem here at all. also, we cleared already that there is no patent trouble involved.




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 22:07

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Cool bro. We are on the same team and we both want the same thing.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

vraf

08.12.2013, 22:13

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

I did not ask this post to be confidential; nothing on the internet is confidential. I said that I will not be able to say everything that I know.

These are the questions I could give answers to without addressing Yoram. All other questions will be gathered into a list and sent to Yoram. I don't want to annoy him multiple times so it will take some time to provide answers, if any.

1. does the device wound the skin at all? ------ No
2. does it hurt? ---- No
3. is there a total redness afterwards or what? --- No
4. Do you think it would be easy to use for people with long or very curly hair? ---- Harder then then with short but possible.
5. could help regrow hair on someone who has been bald on top for over 20 years. If you used the device 3 times a week for a year do they think it could help start to regrow hair? --- I personally saw sample for one so I believe so.
6. Also, if it will be available within a year is there any chance that some of us could get our hands on it sooner? --- No
7. The product that you are using now is it more advanced than the product that we saw the results from catalog from hairdressers? ---Yes
8. Can we buy the product now or do we have to wait? --- Wait. Sorry.
9. so what the f##k is stopping yoram to rule the hairloss world NOW? I don't believe Yoram wants to rule the hairloss world, he is passionate to bring cure to baldness. That what drives him for decades.




vraf is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

08.12.2013, 22:26

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

It would appear that vraf does not care if this discussion stays confidential but there is no reason to take it outside of this site just the same.

Vraf is very clear that we can not get the treatment early. Since we can't get the treatment early there is no point in doing any kind of global crowd-funding or Hairsite donations. It will become available when it becomes available.

We are going to have to wait.

But that is another good sign that this treatment is probably legit. Because if it weren't legit they would probably be willing to start selling to people now before it is really time to start selling it. The fact that they are unwilling to release it early demonstrates that they're serious about what they're doing and that they want to make sure it's effective before they release it to the public. It makes them seem professional and serious.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

08.12.2013, 22:29

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

vraf, that's great. no wounding at all.
i also had the thought that he must be a passionate researcher/doctor/developer or similar to bring this device out only if he gets good results first. for that reason we see, that he is trying to continuously improve the device (pilox5 version already). he's focused more on quality than a big cashcow. this is a very good sign indeed.

one more question for your list: are there any chemicals involved which of we should worry about? is there any ingredient in it which could prevent the device from hitting the market in some countries?
as you already said, it could hit the market within a year maximum, i guess it shouldn't be harmful at all.

one other question, which raises my personal interest: when did the pilox project start? how many years of development?

thx a lot




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

needhairasap

09.12.2013, 00:12

@ vraf

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Thanks again for taking the time to respond and share. probably some of the best news to ever hit hairloss forums ever, and you're breaking it.




needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Lucky

09.12.2013, 00:32

@ needhairasap

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment?




Lucky is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

09.12.2013, 00:47

@ Lucky

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment?


Originally Posted by Lucky

Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment?





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

appleguy

09.12.2013, 01:17

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

-- Is this capable of restoring to NW0?

-- Is the basis behind this device a new approach or an obvious 'right in front of our faces' approach?

-- What's the rough timeframe from slick bald to NW0 with a 3X a day regiment?

-- Is this capable of restoring temple areas and crown?

-- When restoring do crown and temple areas take longer than others or is it all in one go at the same time?

-- Regarding the year timeframe for release will this be worldwide? Also if this works as expected will they have enough to meet demand, I'd be gutted to be on a year long waiting list for this thing.

-- Was it Yoram's request that the Bald truth remove those threads or competitors?

-- Once you've got the required results how much use is needed per week to maintain?

-- Are you seeing results faster than you thought by that I mean are you really noting it weekly?

-- With each 'version' that comes out do is make more hair grow more quickly?

-- That being said will the anticipated release version be better at restoration than the one you have currently? And ho much of a % based improvement will the final one have?

-- Is Yoram planning to distribute himself or sell to another firm?

-- When will his 'Official' announcement be roughly?

-- Have their been any problems with threats from competitors working on other approaches trying to shut this down?

-- Are transplant doctors aware of this and what have they said?

--What was the reason behind Yorams radio silence on this whole thing?




appleguy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Lucky

09.12.2013, 01:23

@ jarjarbinx

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment?


Originally Posted by Lucky

Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment?

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx



Are you guys serious? You all get so excited without knowing why and how the device can grow hair or stop hair loss? With Propecia, we know it slows down the production of DHT, minoxidil is a vasodilator and can stimulate blood circulation, cell based therapy works by multiplying stem cells.

Does anyone know how and why this device works?

I am very grateful for the news, not that I am not thankful for all the posts, but just wish to know a little bit more before getting too excited.




Lucky is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

09.12.2013, 01:37

@ Lucky

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

That's why we have these posts - we are trying to get more information. One thing that seems important to find out is the basis for the treatment working.
If we can find that out that could give us a good idea if the treatment is sound.


This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment?


Originally Posted by Lucky

Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment?

Originally Posted by jarjarbinx


Originally Posted by Lucky



Are you guys serious? You all get so excited without knowing why and how the device can grow hair or stop hair loss? With Propecia, we know it slows down the production of DHT, minoxidil is a vasodilator and can stimulate blood circulation, cell based therapy works by multiplying stem cells.

Does anyone know how and why this device works?

I am very grateful for the news, not that I am not thankful for all the posts, but just wish to know a little bit more before getting too excited.





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

09.12.2013, 01:41

@ Lucky

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

just my personal guess (from what i read so far): it's not a classical dermaroller with needles, therefore no classical wounding and no hurt. it's a device with injects copper and zinc ions into the scalp by iontophoresis which inhibits dht, also supported by heating and vibrating. also some laser or concentrated light source seems to be involved (maybe similar to laser helmet stuff). the combination of all that creates a bio-stimulation, beside the dht inhibition.
it's isralian technology from its finest. they found the way to properly stimulate the hair follicles while inhibiting dht, it seems to me. i'm not wondering anymore why results can be seen so quickly with this treatment. it's totally legit and it all makes sense to me now. also, the whole copper peptide and laser helmet stuff fills in some puzzle pieces now. copper and laser stuff are both proven to be somehow effective against dht and for stimulating the biology in the scalp. probably never as effective as desired, but this pilogic device really seems to hit the nail on its head by combining all these stuff with a proper treatment protocol. i totally believe in this stuff now. yoram will be king when he releases his device. hopefully he decides to do that soon.




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

09.12.2013, 01:56

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

as an addition: the best part of that is: since there are hopefully only copper and zinc ions involved, it's a safe treatment and won't be held back by any regulatory, hopefully. because copper and zinc is part of the body and also crucial for hair growth. there is sometimes a strong connection between hairloss and a lack of copper (in case of a poor diet for example). so we need the copper and zinc in any case, we simply don't have enough of them in the scalp. so we guide them into the scalp by the iontophoresis device, in ionized form because only then they can penetrate the skin by ions flow, created by an electrical field (2 electrodes). so, there's nothing bad about firing zinc and copper directly into the scalp as it is a very low concentration. of course we don't know all the magic in detail and nobody of us will never know, of course. the right protocol, or in other words, in which concentration the ions are released, and when the light source is applied, and when the vibration and heating stuff comes into play, is the key and finale recipe of yoram, which is probably the reason why it probably took years to find out how to work this out.

again, this is just my personal guess. but yoram cracked the code, it's undeniable to me (although my thoughts are crazy as i never saw the device :-)




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

helpmeout

09.12.2013, 02:10

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

hmmm, DHT and laser. I hope that I am wrong but I am not too excited about this after hearing DHT and laser.

There are so many anti DHT products on the market, we all know that DHT is only part of the reason we are losing our hair, otherwise Propecia or Avodart alone would have cured baldness.

As for laser, it has been around for many years already, including the FDA cleared hairmax, I have never heard anything outstanding about laser treatment either.

Okay, you may say combining anti DHT with laser will produce a dramatic result, well the truth is that many people who use hairmax are also using Propecia and other anti DHT products too, I haven't seen anything impressive.

Again hope I am wrong about this.




helpmeout is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
Propecia, 25mg spiro, Remox, Nizoral.

Magneto_Amarendo

09.12.2013, 02:30

@ helpmeout

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

there are some further details to consider: propecia does not inhibit 100% of dht in the scalp, this is the big problem, not to mention dht shampoos. i think, none of them is able to block dht completely. maybe only 50% of the dht amount if we are lucky (correct me if i am wrong). of course, dht is the main problem of the whole hair loss stuff. dht causes inflammation and miniaturization of the follicles. if we would have a way to really block almost 100% dht in the scalp (e.g. by CB for example)… and assuming that there are no problems with the person's diet, then probably a lot of hair loss problems would be solved, wouldn't it?

further i think, there is a strong laser involved in the pilogic device, which does the job of classical dermaroller needles. instead of metallic needles, the laser fire ultra short duration pulses on the scalp to cause the 'wounding'. to be exact, as it doesn't hurt like a dermaroller, i assume we can't speak of classicsl wounding here (with a bloody mess). it's more like a micro-wounding inside the scalp, down to 1.5mm maybe, to force the body to start its natural repair mechanism and release natural growth factors. this, in combination with the dht inhibition, and also further stimulation with heat and vibration, seems to be the perfect combo to rescue dying hair follicles and maybe, in some cases, also follicle neogenesis. personally i think it's more effective in preventing further hair loss than creating new follicles. but when we consider that, according to some researchers, the hair follicles are never truely dead and still existing in the scalp. i assume if we then would use the pilogic device for 2 or 3 years consistently, that these thought to be dead follicles could grow again. so it's not really a neogenesis, it only seems like it would be because the scalp was slick for many years.




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Magneto_Amarendo

09.12.2013, 02:55

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

it also makes totally sense now that the device has to be used for 5min a day only, because:
once you rolled the device over your head (probably slowly), the scalp is supplied with all the ions and shot with laser pulses probably, so once every spot is covered, there is no need to roll over again and again for minutes or hours.

so, to summarize (don't take to serious, it's just a guess):
pilogic is a non-invasive, painless ultra convenient 5min a day device, which inhibits dht by copper and zinc ions (through iontophoresis), and promotes hair growth by laser wounding, or maybe some photo-bio-stimulation with heat and vibration, all in a special sequence or recipe. it's a genius device, which looks too good to be true, but truely science-backed and reasonable. everything i read about hairloss for the last 2 years, combined with that device, really would make sense now (we will see in a few months).

forget CB and all the other experimental stuff, THIS device is the real deal. i can feel it.

by the way: most of the people are still searching the right CB vehicle. this pilogic device would also be perfect to inject the CB via iontophoresis, the same way like cosmo did it and showed good results. but nobody will care about CB anymore if this pilox device turns into reality. poor cosmo. they simply made the wrong decision to delay the hairloss trials with CB and focusing on acne instead. now they are screwed :-)




Magneto_Amarendo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

09.12.2013, 03:01

@ Magneto_Amarendo

DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness

I think we should wait for more information. We don't even know the mode of action for the Israeli treatment yet so we don't know that it's plausible. We need to wait until we find out how the Israeli technology works before we assume anything.


Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo

it also makes totally sense now that the device has to be used for 5min a day only, because:
once you rolled the device over your head (probably slowly), the scalp is supplied with all the ions and shot with laser pulses probably, so once every spot is covered, there is no need to roll over again and again for minutes or hours.

so, to summarize (don't take to serious, it's just a guess):
pilogic is a non-invasive, painless ultra convenient 5min a day device, which inhibits dht by copper and zinc ions (through iontophoresis), and promotes hair growth by laser wounding, or maybe some photo-bio-stimulation with heat and vibration, all in a special sequence or recipe. it's a genius device, which looks too good to be true, but truely science-backed and reasonable. everything i read about hairloss for the last 2 years, combined with that device, really would make sense now (we will see in a few months).

forget CB and all the other experimental stuff, THIS device is the real deal. i can feel it.

by the way: most of the people are still searching the right CB vehicle. this pilogic device would also be perfect to inject the CB via iontophoresis, the same way like cosmo did it and showed good results. but nobody will care about CB anymore if this pilox device turns into reality. poor cosmo. they simply made the wrong decision to delay the hairloss trials with CB and focusing on acne instead. now they are screwed :-)





jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

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