jarjarbinx 07.12.2013, 23:37 |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for treating hair loss, baldness (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment) |
Vraf please start posting in this thread. |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 00:28 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
first of all: vraf, what is the reason why the pilox method seems to be such a secret? do we have to take care about what we are talking here? can you ask yoram where the limits of discussion are? i guess, there will arise some questions related to follica very quickly. there are rumours about their patents etc. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 00:52 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
* How many phases of studies are there in Israel? In America there are phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3. Each one typically lasts at least one year? |
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roger_that MARYLAND, 08.12.2013, 01:01 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Jarjar, Aka1, who lives in Israel, is saying he doesn't think the testing of this device is being conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health... in other words, these are informal clinical trials, as opposed to formal ones. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 01:05 @ roger_that |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Disconcerting. Although it is possible that whatever treatment they're using would not require official testing conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health, but that's not likely is it? ![]() Jarjar, Aka1, who lives in Israel, is saying he doesn't think the testing of this device is being conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health... in other words, these are informal clinical trials, as opposed to formal ones. They might not even be real clinical trials per se, at all. Instead, it might be just Pilogics giving out the device to people to test for themselves. Which raises questions of the legality of the whole thing. The problem is, if they don't conduct these tests in a legal way, they may be invalid, and they may not get approval to sell th e device eventually. If the Israeli MOH finds out about it (officially), they may have to ask Pilogics to either formally register for clinical trials, or scrap the project and stop distributing the device. Sad but true. I'm just sayin'... jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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roger_that MARYLAND, 08.12.2013, 01:08 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Disconcerting. Although it is possible that whatever treatment they're using would not require official testing conducted under the oversight of the Israeli Ministry of Health, but that's not likely is it? I guess it's possible, but I really doubt it. Come on, injuring the skin, putting copper ion solutions and other chemicals into the skin? In the US there is no doubt that this would require close FDA oversight. roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. |
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brunobald 08.12.2013, 01:17 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Vraf, thanks for updating us. Do you have any progress pics you would be willing to share? |
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aka1 08.12.2013, 01:24 @ roger_that |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
please, do not overthink things! |
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chris 08.12.2013, 01:35 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
what device is this? this just came out of nowhere. some links please |
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needhairasap 08.12.2013, 07:19 @ aka1 |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
![]() first lets see if this really works like claimed, AND ONLY THEN if the cure is really found, i'm sure everybody here will be able to get their hands on it somehow, regardless if it gets approved in the way it is supposed to be. lets focus on finding out if it works first! +1 needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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vraf 08.12.2013, 16:38 @ needhairasap |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Hi Guys, |
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needhairasap 08.12.2013, 17:06 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
this sounds like the real deal |
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brunobald 08.12.2013, 17:11 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Thanks Vraf. |
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vraf 08.12.2013, 17:28 @ brunobald |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
![]() Thanks Vraf. Will this new product be affordable for the average man? Very affordable! vraf is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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needhairasap 08.12.2013, 17:42 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
![]() Thanks Vraf. Will this new product be affordable for the average man? ![]() Very affordable! out in a year and affordable!?? unbelievable! HT doctors are in a very scary place-- they'll only be good for hairlines and touchups now. needhairasap is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 18:41 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
hey vraf, |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 18:46 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
also vraf, please ask yoram if you can share the following an answer to the following, probably most important detail: does the device wound the skin at all? if so, how deep? does it hurt? is there a total redness afterwards or what? or is it more vibration, electro pulses or something like that? |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 18:50 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
i could imagine that the device is something like a portable iontophoresis device which forces some copper ions to circulate through the scalp by electrical pulses. this would be a real high tech gadget, if it would even work without wounding (which of i'm mostly scared of) |
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licht 08.12.2013, 19:06 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Do you think it would be easy to use for people with long or very curly hair? I mean for example, a dermaroller is not easy to use unless your hair is quite short. |
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mell 08.12.2013, 19:35 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Vraf---Could you ask if the device could help regrow hair on someone who has been bald on top for over 20 years. If you used the device 3 times a week for a year do they think it could help start to regrow hair. Thanks again Nick |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 19:50 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
I'm not scared of wounding myself at all as long as it's not too deep. ![]() hey vraf, if pilogics is safe in the meaning of patents and has nothing to worry about the competition, and the product will be out in a year, can you ask yoram when the first details will get public? i mean, setting up a website with basic information about the device, availability and so on. if yoram plans to start these steps within, let's say the next 6 months, we could probably wait for it and don't have to fire all these questions on you ![]() ![]() jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 19:52 @ mell |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
also: is the device aimed to rejuvenate existing hairs or to induce new hair at bald spots (like e.g. follica claims,by their wounding method, neogenesis)? or does rejuvenate AND induce follicle neogenesis as well? |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 20:01 (edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 20:34) @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
* Vraf, thanks for answering some of my questions. I do want to run one of these issues by you again worded differently because Roger_that has raised a similar issue and I would like you to see the issue he raised. Please open this link: ![]() Hi Guys, Sorry or the delay with answers, I had to wait for Yoram answers. Although Yoram gave answers to brunobald, he didn’t know it will be published and the restrictions about revealing the knowledge still exist. You must understand guys that the Pilogics partnership did not want this story to be published till the product will be available for marketing. They know that the word has already spread but they still want to keep most of the details in secret. Therefore, I was asked, again, to be very restrict with the data and talk mostly on my personal experience. Any issue, which will have the potential of revealing harmful data will receive no answer or be sent to Yoram for approval. YOU ALL MUST TAKE MY ANSWERS IN LIMITS! I’M NOT PILOGICS REPRESENTATIVE NOR ANY OTHER FORMAL SPOKESMAN! I was just given an approval to share some staff cause I want to give you hope and good filling as I, myself would have wanted to be treated like. Please forgive my English, it’s not my mother language. Please be patient with the speed of my posts since I’m making efforts to avoid English mistakes. In the following, I will try, has much as I can, to tell you about my experience and some answers to your questions: 1. I’m 43 YO, new in the bald staff. I believe, comparing to the Norwood scale, that I’m 3 vortex. Started using Rogaine 1.5 months before starting to use Piloxll. I quitted Rogaine 5 days before starting to use Piloxll. 2. Before starting my trial, Yoram shaved 2 spots on my crown, marked them with under skin paint and pictured with a special microscopic camera. My hair was counted per stage (anagen etc.) and 4 days later I passed the same procedure. the trial started only after the second procedure. 3. I’m using the Piloxll 3 times a day, 5 minutes on the crown and 5 minutes on the front. The protocol is only 5 minutes on all scalp 3 times a week. But… the more proven to be better. 4. The device is very easy to use and can be used during lots of other activities like watching television. 5. There are no side effects at all! Hundreds of trail users reported no side effects. 6. The device is a very high-tech instrument. Since I’m in a trial, I have the latest prototype which has further functionalities like recording every treatment that I do and the feedbacks it receives from my scalp. This functionality will not be in market device. There are so many hidden technology in it so believe me, don’t try to replicate it, it’s a waste of time even trying to follow the patent will not help.. 7. Although I take picture of my scalp every few days, I’m not allowed to share them with you, yet. Maybe I will receive approval in the future, it’s in discussion. I can tell you that I see more thickness and even fuzzes in the front side which didn’t grow hair for years. For some question you asked: 1. Pilogics has nothing to do with Polica! Pilogics has an approved patent which its idea building blocks started many many years ago. In my opinion, they didn’t even know about them till they read about the comparison in the forums. 2. “How many phases of studies are there in Israel?” – I’m not allowed to share this information. 3. “Also, what phase study is the treatment in at this time?” - I’m not allowed to share this information. 4. “And how much longer until it completes testing so we can purchase it?” -The current tests has nothing to do with marketing. The product will be out in a year. Maximum. 5. “Also, is there a reason why he won't sell the treatment now from a country that will allow him to do so?” - No one said that he is not allowed to sell right now. Selling is not pending only on regulation. 6. “Why did they abandon Pillox 2, Pillox 3, and Pillox 4?” – They did not abandon, every product has a “Product developing evolution”. 7. “Is he just now starting Pillox 5 and if he is do we have to wait years before it's marketed and we can use it?” – In a year. Sorry if I missed a question, you may keep posting questions and I promise to do my best to give you answers. jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Rob35 08.12.2013, 20:34 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Vraf thanx a lot for your answers. This is most exciting news to come for a long time. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 20:36 @ Rob35 |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Do you see vraf? Some people want to try it now. People's lives are damaged by hair loss and so they want a way out of their awful situation. |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 21:06 (edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 21:50) @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 21:16 (edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 21:59) @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
* It's not a good idea for you to promise $500 per bald person in exchange for information. You are making unnecessary offers to pay $500 each bald person for information even as the Israeli group is already being kind enough to share information. ![]() also important: what about funding? could we accelerate things if we donate some money? there is often some talk about crowdfunding, also for hairloss topics. if this device is legit, this would be the right direction to donate. could pilogics need a kickstart with money to start producing and selling that device? or could we buy us more transparency with money, e.g. a group of backers which get early information and early access to the device? if yoram thinks that we could do something with money, he should let us know. there will come hundrets of thousand dollars together quicker as he can watch his bank account. i even think, a goal of 1 mio. would be reached so damn fast (e.g. 2000 baldies donate 500 bucks, and there we are). so money should really be no problem here, if there are already impressive (and proven) results with it. almost everybody would pay in advance. so what the f##k is stopping yoram to rule the hairloss world NOW? ![]() jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 21:24 (edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 21:56) @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
lol |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 21:34 (edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 22:04) @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Of course we should also be discussing with vraf the possibility of a few of us getting the treatment soon to test for the whole site, but it's too early to set an amount because we don't know if the treatment works and we don't know how much we can raise at this site. We have to keep this discussion within this site. |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 21:45 (edited by Magneto_Amarendo, 08.12.2013, 22:15) @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
jarjar, keep cool. you're overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won't change anything. i wasn't saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 21:52 (edited by jarjarbinx, 08.12.2013, 22:08) @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Cool |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 21:54 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
vraf asked that we keep this discussion and the treatment confidential. ![]() jarjar, keep cool. you're overacting a lot here. my post about the crowdfunding won't change anything. i wasn't saying to pay for information only. it was about getting info and a prototype device a.s.a.p. maybe (before it hits the market) and only if there is provided some proof of concept and some results first. you're talking about destroyed lives and put a lot of drama in your posts, as you would do anything for the device, but then are scared when it comes to donate a few bucks. ( no offense ) let's move on with the important questions and hope to get some news from vraf jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 22:00 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
man, i'll keep it confidential and discrete. we all do. calm down. i also want this device to be real as anyone other. |
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walrus 08.12.2013, 22:01 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
You should keep this discussion secret like we were advised to do. You should not say anything about this treatment, or this discussion, outside of this site. Secret? This is a public forum that is crawled by any number of search engine bots. Nothing posted here is secret. walrus is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 22:06 @ walrus |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
we mean: as confidential as it could be, in the world wide web. anyway: vraf has the permission of yoram already and questions which cannot be answered at this time will remain without an answer. so, it's all ok here. we don't reveal any secret details as long as yoram doesn't allow to. i see no problem here at all. also, we cleared already that there is no patent trouble involved. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 22:07 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Cool bro. We are on the same team and we both want the same thing. |
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vraf 08.12.2013, 22:13 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
I did not ask this post to be confidential; nothing on the internet is confidential. I said that I will not be able to say everything that I know. |
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jarjarbinx 08.12.2013, 22:26 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
It would appear that vraf does not care if this discussion stays confidential but there is no reason to take it outside of this site just the same. |
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Magneto_Amarendo 08.12.2013, 22:29 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
vraf, that's great. no wounding at all. |
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needhairasap 09.12.2013, 00:12 @ vraf |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Thanks again for taking the time to respond and share. probably some of the best news to ever hit hairloss forums ever, and you're breaking it. |
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Lucky 09.12.2013, 00:32 @ needhairasap |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment? |
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jarjarbinx 09.12.2013, 00:47 @ Lucky |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment? ![]() Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment? jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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appleguy 09.12.2013, 01:17 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
-- Is this capable of restoring to NW0? |
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Lucky 09.12.2013, 01:23 @ jarjarbinx |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment? ![]() Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment? ![]() Are you guys serious? You all get so excited without knowing why and how the device can grow hair or stop hair loss? With Propecia, we know it slows down the production of DHT, minoxidil is a vasodilator and can stimulate blood circulation, cell based therapy works by multiplying stem cells. Does anyone know how and why this device works? I am very grateful for the news, not that I am not thankful for all the posts, but just wish to know a little bit more before getting too excited. Lucky is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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jarjarbinx 09.12.2013, 01:37 @ Lucky |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
That's why we have these posts - we are trying to get more information. One thing that seems important to find out is the basis for the treatment working. This is a very good question - what is the scientific basis for this treatment? ![]() Is there a picture of the device? How does it work, what is the scientific basis for this treatment? ![]() ![]() Are you guys serious? You all get so excited without knowing why and how the device can grow hair or stop hair loss? With Propecia, we know it slows down the production of DHT, minoxidil is a vasodilator and can stimulate blood circulation, cell based therapy works by multiplying stem cells. Does anyone know how and why this device works? I am very grateful for the news, not that I am not thankful for all the posts, but just wish to know a little bit more before getting too excited. jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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Magneto_Amarendo 09.12.2013, 01:41 @ Lucky |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
just my personal guess (from what i read so far): it's not a classical dermaroller with needles, therefore no classical wounding and no hurt. it's a device with injects copper and zinc ions into the scalp by iontophoresis which inhibits dht, also supported by heating and vibrating. also some laser or concentrated light source seems to be involved (maybe similar to laser helmet stuff). the combination of all that creates a bio-stimulation, beside the dht inhibition. |
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Magneto_Amarendo 09.12.2013, 01:56 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
as an addition: the best part of that is: since there are hopefully only copper and zinc ions involved, it's a safe treatment and won't be held back by any regulatory, hopefully. because copper and zinc is part of the body and also crucial for hair growth. there is sometimes a strong connection between hairloss and a lack of copper (in case of a poor diet for example). so we need the copper and zinc in any case, we simply don't have enough of them in the scalp. so we guide them into the scalp by the iontophoresis device, in ionized form because only then they can penetrate the skin by ions flow, created by an electrical field (2 electrodes). so, there's nothing bad about firing zinc and copper directly into the scalp as it is a very low concentration. of course we don't know all the magic in detail and nobody of us will never know, of course. the right protocol, or in other words, in which concentration the ions are released, and when the light source is applied, and when the vibration and heating stuff comes into play, is the key and finale recipe of yoram, which is probably the reason why it probably took years to find out how to work this out. |
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helpmeout 09.12.2013, 02:10 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
hmmm, DHT and laser. I hope that I am wrong but I am not too excited about this after hearing DHT and laser. --- |
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Magneto_Amarendo 09.12.2013, 02:30 @ helpmeout |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
there are some further details to consider: propecia does not inhibit 100% of dht in the scalp, this is the big problem, not to mention dht shampoos. i think, none of them is able to block dht completely. maybe only 50% of the dht amount if we are lucky (correct me if i am wrong). of course, dht is the main problem of the whole hair loss stuff. dht causes inflammation and miniaturization of the follicles. if we would have a way to really block almost 100% dht in the scalp (e.g. by CB for example)… and assuming that there are no problems with the person's diet, then probably a lot of hair loss problems would be solved, wouldn't it? |
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Magneto_Amarendo 09.12.2013, 02:55 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
it also makes totally sense now that the device has to be used for 5min a day only, because: |
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jarjarbinx 09.12.2013, 03:01 @ Magneto_Amarendo |
DISCUSSION ABOUT ONLY PILOX for hair loss, baldness |
I think we should wait for more information. We don't even know the mode of action for the Israeli treatment yet so we don't know that it's plausible. We need to wait until we find out how the Israeli technology works before we assume anything. ![]() it also makes totally sense now that the device has to be used for 5min a day only, because: once you rolled the device over your head (probably slowly), the scalp is supplied with all the ions and shot with laser pulses probably, so once every spot is covered, there is no need to roll over again and again for minutes or hours. so, to summarize (don't take to serious, it's just a guess): pilogic is a non-invasive, painless ultra convenient 5min a day device, which inhibits dht by copper and zinc ions (through iontophoresis), and promotes hair growth by laser wounding, or maybe some photo-bio-stimulation with heat and vibration, all in a special sequence or recipe. it's a genius device, which looks too good to be true, but truely science-backed and reasonable. everything i read about hairloss for the last 2 years, combined with that device, really would make sense now (we will see in a few months). forget CB and all the other experimental stuff, THIS device is the real deal. i can feel it. by the way: most of the people are still searching the right CB vehicle. this pilogic device would also be perfect to inject the CB via iontophoresis, the same way like cosmo did it and showed good results. but nobody will care about CB anymore if this pilox device turns into reality. poor cosmo. they simply made the wrong decision to delay the hairloss trials with CB and focusing on acne instead. now they are screwed ![]() jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |