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Z79

20.03.2011, 09:54
 

New Follica patent! (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

Could this be the final product? It has to be what they are testing in their clinical trial. Only the abstract is online for the moment but this is what it says :

The invention relates to intermittent lithium treatments, or a single pulse lithium treatment for modulating hair growth in human subjects. Uses of compositions containing compounds that liberate lithium ions are described, including adjuvants and devices for administration. The intermittent treatment protocol involves multiple courses of lithium treatment interrupted by lithium treatment "holidays." For the single pulse protocol, a dose of lithium is administered over a short period of time. The lithium treatment(s) can be used in combination with other treatments for the enhancement or inhibition of hair growth. Such combination treatments may involve mechanical or physical treatments that cause integumental perturbation (e.g. such as electrology (electrolysis), laser, intense pulsed light, dermabrasion, etc.); immune stimulation (e.g., such as adjuvants, antigens, cytokines, growth factors, etc. ); and/or chemical treatments (e.g., that cause integumental perturbation or that enhance or inhibit hair growth); and/or surgical treatments (e.g., hair transplant) for the enhancement or inhibition of hair growth. The combination treatment(s) may be administered concurrently with, or during the "holidays'" between, cycles of intermittent lithium treatments; or concurrently with, or before and/or after the pulse lithium treatment.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20110317&CC=WO&NR=2011031990A1&KC=A1


EDIT. Full patent here
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2011031990A1.html




Z79 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Z79

20.03.2011, 11:59

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

It seems like they are using an approved and on the market cream called Lithioderm 8% and this increases hair follicle formation after wounding. But examples are also given with only Lithioderm and no wounding:

6. EXAMPLE 1: INTERMITTENT TREATMENT OF HAMILTON-NORWOOD TYPE VI MALE-PATTERN ALOPECIA USING LITHIUM GLUCONATE GEL ALTERNATING WITH TOPICAL MINOXIDIL

[00410] A male human subject, 30 years old, with Hamilton-Norwood type VI male- pattern alopecia presents complaining of continued hair loss despite treatment with topical minoxidil foam 5%, oral finasteride 1 mg/day. The subject is provided with a topical preparation of Lithium gluconate 8% gel (Lithioderm 8% gel) and instructed to discontinue topical minoxidil and to apply the Lithium gluconate 8% gel to affected area of the scalp for one week (to synchronize the hair follicle cells in G2/M phase arrest). After one wreek, treatment with lithium gluconate is discontinued and treatment with topical minoxidil foam is re-started and he is evaluated after three weeks.

[00411] Response to therapy is determined by measuring new hair growth (increased number of fibers in an affected area of scalp); thickness of fibers; length of hair fibers; and the patient's subjective evaluation of hair growth. The treated area of affected scalp is biopsied and studied for distribution of follicles in various stages of Follicle Cycle (anagen, catagen, etc.); distribution of follicle cells in various stages of cell cycle (e.g. G2, M, etc.); new follicle growth, bifurcating follicles; follicles undergoing follicle division; follicles growing new hair fibers, follicles with no hair fibers.

[00412] The subject is treated with 10 cycles of the protocol: alternating topical lithium gluconate (1 week) with minoxidil foam treatment (3 weeks in which finasteride treatment is continued). Response to therapy is measured by the methods described above.


Though the new follicles might not be terminal hairs:

FSCs generate new hair follicles that preserve the type of hair follicle that is typical for each location of skin or scalp. For example, FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL typically generate atrophic follicles with vellus or club hairs. In contrast, FSCs from the occipital scalp of the same male typically generate follicles with terminal hair that are not subject to involution in response to DHT.

But this could possibly be fixed with temporary use of estrogen cream:

[00303] However, if external signals are provided that interfere with this "default" program, the FSCs responsible for follicle formation may be reprogrammed. FSCs in the process of asymmetric division and subsequent differentiation are susceptible to signals (such as estrogen or testosterone) that alter the determinism of their differentiation program. For example, FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL, under the influence of estrogen, can generate follicles with terminal hair that are not subject to involution in response to DHT. Such follicles have characteristics usually associated with: (i) pre-alopecia follicles in the coronal scalp; (ii) female-type follicles on the coronal scalp; or (iii) occipital scalp type follicles. Alternatively, by antagonizing estrogen or testosterone, the assumption of the default hair pattern in a particular skin area may be prevented. For example, a female's unwanted moustache hair may be reduced by perturbing the skin of the upper lip and administering a testosterone antagonist.

Example of this treatment is as follows:

[00423] The subject is provided a treatment in which the bald crown scalp receives in order: (i) Erbium- YAG laser; (ii) lithium; and (iii) estrogen during the phase where follicle stem cells are reorganizing and reforming hair follicles. The estrogen treatment reprograms the follicle stem cells to alter their sensitivity/response to androgens. In effect, this could be described as rendering follicle stem cells either (a) '"female-type" with respect to crown scalp follicle cells or (b) "occipital scalp type" in terms of their lack of response to androgens by involution. 9.

No results from these examples are given unfortunately. So the question still remains on how effective this Follica treatment will be. Does it give terminal hairs? How many per square cm?




Z79 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Khalil

20.03.2011, 18:42

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

very interesting, thanks for the find

[image]




Khalil is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

googoo

20.03.2011, 18:44

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

Well, all of this stuff is available right now, and it's all pretty safe, so why don't we just do our own test here at Hairsite?




googoo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Mr. Z

20.03.2011, 18:49

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

That's a really interesting find. Thanks for posting.

I still think follica, of all the companies, has the strongest research team and are our best hope of curing this. Hopefully they will come forward with some results this year. Based on this patent, it really sounds like they have a good understanding on how to control the hair follicle. Hopefully, what they're working on is producing good cosmetic results; but that remains to be seen. It's been a long, long time since we've heard anything from them.




Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

googoo

20.03.2011, 18:51

@ Mr. Z

New Follica patent!

» That's a really interesting find. Thanks for posting.
»
» I still think follica, of all the companies, has the strongest research
» team and are our best hope of curing this. Hopefully they will come
» forward with some results this year. Based on this patent, it really
» sounds like they have a good understanding on how to control the hair
» follicle. Hopefully, what they're working on is producing good cosmetic
» results; but that remains to be seen. It's been a long, long time since
» we've heard anything from them.


More importantly, all of the stuff in the new patent is available so why don't we just try this treatment RIGHT NOW??? It's all laid out very well what patients need to do.

1. Erbium - YAG laser.

2. Lithium

3. estrogen cream

4. minoxidil foam (or perhaps Lewenberg formula minoxidil, which I hear is one of the best minoxidils on the market).


What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get this done, and get it done right?




googoo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Khalil

20.03.2011, 18:59

@ googoo

New Follica patent!

»
»
» What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get
» this done, and get it done right?


I think its a laser device for perturbation of the skin?




Khalil is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Mr. Z

20.03.2011, 19:10

@ googoo

New Follica patent!

» » That's a really interesting find. Thanks for posting.
» »
» » I still think follica, of all the companies, has the strongest research
» » team and are our best hope of curing this. Hopefully they will come
» » forward with some results this year. Based on this patent, it really
» » sounds like they have a good understanding on how to control the hair
» » follicle. Hopefully, what they're working on is producing good cosmetic
» » results; but that remains to be seen. It's been a long, long time since
» » we've heard anything from them.
»
»
» More importantly, all of the stuff in the new patent is available so why
» don't we just try this treatment RIGHT NOW??? It's all laid out very well
» what patients need to do.
»
» 1. Erbium - YAG laser.
»
» 2. Lithium
»
» 3. estrogen cream
»
» 4. minoxidil foam (or perhaps Lewenberg formula minoxidil, which I hear is
» one of the best minoxidils on the market).
»
»
» What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get
» this done, and get it done right?


Well, they list the ingredients but leave out the critical parts, like quantities (of wounding and doses of drugs) and more importantly the timing of adminstration of the medications, which seem to be very critical. These would be very difficult for an individual to figure out on his own. It could take many permutations of the procedure to figure out how to do it correctly. And due to the slow nature of hair growth/follicle formation, going through even a few permutations would take a very long time. Plus, there is always the risk of doing permanent damage to your scalp.

My guess is Follica is much further along in the process than we can figure out based on what's been published. I'd probably wait until they publish some kind of results before trying this at home. But, i'm conservative when it comes to stuff like that. If you do try it, i wish you best of luck and hope you'll start small and play it safe as possible.




Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevie.Dee

20.03.2011, 19:12

@ Khalil

New Follica patent!

» »
» »
» » What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get
» » this done, and get it done right?
»
»
» I think its a laser device for perturbation of the skin?

Its so funny that all those researchers are going slowly to one key point "Growth Factors"

Seems pretty legit if all researchers go there but with different approaches.

I like it but i wont like it on facebook ;-)

I think its funny with those facebook buttons here, nobody here would ever like anything from here :-)




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

fckhrls

20.03.2011, 19:20

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

» Could this be the final product?

Good find. Follica's in stealth mode for a reason. They don't need the money like some other companies, so they don't need to leak anything. I still think they're pretty far off, though.




fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

20.03.2011, 19:21

@ googoo

New Follica patent!

» » That's a really interesting find. Thanks for posting.
» »
» » I still think follica, of all the companies, has the strongest research
» » team and are our best hope of curing this. Hopefully they will come
» » forward with some results this year. Based on this patent, it really
» » sounds like they have a good understanding on how to control the hair
» » follicle. Hopefully, what they're working on is producing good cosmetic
» » results; but that remains to be seen. It's been a long, long time since
» » we've heard anything from them.
»
»
» More importantly, all of the stuff in the new patent is available so why
» don't we just try this treatment RIGHT NOW??? It's all laid out very well
» what patients need to do.
»
» 1. Erbium - YAG laser.
»
» 2. Lithium
»
» 3. estrogen cream
»
» 4. minoxidil foam (or perhaps Lewenberg formula minoxidil, which I hear is
» one of the best minoxidils on the market).
»
»
» What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get
» this done, and get it done right?

Where can you buy Lithium and estrogen cream in the US?



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

20.03.2011, 19:28

@ googoo

New Follica patent!

» » That's a really interesting find. Thanks for posting.
» »
» » I still think follica, of all the companies, has the strongest research
» » team and are our best hope of curing this. Hopefully they will come
» » forward with some results this year. Based on this patent, it really
» » sounds like they have a good understanding on how to control the hair
» » follicle. Hopefully, what they're working on is producing good cosmetic
» » results; but that remains to be seen. It's been a long, long time since
» » we've heard anything from them.
»
»
» More importantly, all of the stuff in the new patent is available so why
» don't we just try this treatment RIGHT NOW??? It's all laid out very well
» what patients need to do.
»
» 1. Erbium - YAG laser.
»
» 2. Lithium
»
» 3. estrogen cream
»
» 4. minoxidil foam (or perhaps Lewenberg formula minoxidil, which I hear is
» one of the best minoxidils on the market).
»
»
» What is this first thing - the Erbium - YAG laser? How can a person get
» this done, and get it done right?

Isn't the YAG laser used for laser hair removal?



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

balki

21.03.2011, 00:33

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

» It seems like they are using an approved and on the market cream called
» Lithioderm 8% and this increases hair follicle formation after wounding.
» But examples are also given with only Lithioderm and no wounding:
»
» 6. EXAMPLE 1: INTERMITTENT TREATMENT OF HAMILTON-NORWOOD TYPE
» VI MALE-PATTERN ALOPECIA USING LITHIUM GLUCONATE GEL ALTERNATING WITH
» TOPICAL MINOXIDIL
»
» [00410] A male human subject, 30 years old, with Hamilton-Norwood type VI
» male- pattern alopecia presents complaining of continued hair loss despite
» treatment with topical minoxidil foam 5%, oral finasteride 1 mg/day. The
» subject is provided with a topical preparation of Lithium gluconate 8% gel
» (Lithioderm 8% gel) and instructed to discontinue topical minoxidil and to
» apply the Lithium gluconate 8% gel to affected area of the scalp for one
» week (to synchronize the hair follicle cells in G2/M phase arrest). After
» one wreek, treatment with lithium gluconate is discontinued and treatment
» with topical minoxidil foam is re-started and he is evaluated after three
» weeks.
»
» [00411] Response to therapy is determined by measuring new hair growth
» (increased number of fibers in an affected area of scalp); thickness of
» fibers; length of hair fibers; and the patient's subjective evaluation of
» hair growth. The treated area of affected scalp is biopsied and studied for
» distribution of follicles in various stages of Follicle Cycle (anagen,
» catagen, etc.); distribution of follicle cells in various stages of cell
» cycle (e.g. G2, M, etc.); new follicle growth, bifurcating follicles;
» follicles undergoing follicle division; follicles growing new hair fibers,
» follicles with no hair fibers.
»
» [00412] The subject is treated with 10 cycles of the protocol: alternating
» topical lithium gluconate (1 week) with minoxidil foam treatment (3 weeks
» in which finasteride treatment is continued). Response to therapy is
» measured by the methods described above.
»
» Though the new follicles might not be terminal hairs:
»
» FSCs generate new hair follicles that preserve the type of hair
» follicle that is typical for each location of skin or scalp. For example,
» FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL typically generate atrophic
» follicles with vellus or club hairs. In contrast, FSCs from the occipital
» scalp of the same male typically generate follicles with terminal hair that
» are not subject to involution in response to DHT.
»
» But this could possibly be fixed with temporary use of estrogen cream:
»
» [00303] However, if external signals are provided that
» interfere with this "default" program, the FSCs responsible for follicle
» formation may be reprogrammed. FSCs in the process of asymmetric division
» and subsequent differentiation are susceptible to signals (such as estrogen
» or testosterone) that alter the determinism of their differentiation
» program. For example, FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL,
» under the influence of estrogen, can generate follicles with terminal hair
» that are not subject to involution in response to DHT. Such follicles have
» characteristics usually associated with: (i) pre-alopecia follicles in the
» coronal scalp; (ii) female-type follicles on the coronal scalp; or (iii)
» occipital scalp type follicles. Alternatively, by antagonizing estrogen or
» testosterone, the assumption of the default hair pattern in a particular
» skin area may be prevented. For example, a female's unwanted moustache hair
» may be reduced by perturbing the skin of the upper lip and administering a
» testosterone antagonist.
»
» Example of this treatment is as follows:
»
» [00423] The subject is provided a treatment in which the bald
» crown scalp receives in order: (i) Erbium- YAG laser; (ii) lithium; and
» (iii) estrogen during the phase where follicle stem cells are reorganizing
» and reforming hair follicles. The estrogen treatment reprograms the
» follicle stem cells to alter their sensitivity/response to androgens. In
» effect, this could be described as rendering follicle stem cells either (a)
» '"female-type" with respect to crown scalp follicle cells or (b) "occipital
» scalp type" in terms of their lack of response to androgens by involution.
» 9.
»
» No results from these examples are given unfortunately. So the question
» still remains on how effective this Follica treatment will be. Does it give
» terminal hairs? How many per square cm?


I saw this question posed on another site and I agree with the premise, so I figured I'd repeat it here...

Do you think you'd have to use finasteride? I know they mentioned that. It bothers me that they mentioned that.




balki is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

21.03.2011, 01:49

@ balki

New Follica patent!

Its so funny that all those researchers are going slowly to one key point "Growth Factors"

Seems pretty legit if all researchers go there but with different approaches.



I've been a believer that HM is coming ever since I realized that Follica & Histogen were barking up very similar trees.

Doing it with growth factors is simple, elegant, and cheap. All this other stuff (Aderans, Acell, plucking, etc) looks unnecessarily complicated and clumsy in comparison.

The growth-factor-based approach strikes me as the only one that actually starts with the problem and works towards whatever solution it requires. Most of the other efforts have started out already committed to a certain rough outline of their solution, and then trying to tweak it enough to make it work for the problem.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
21.03.2011, 01:53

@ Z79

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

If they're messing around with Lithium for hairloss, they're even more desperate and unimaginative than I thought.

I believe there have already been numerous patents in the US using lithium for hairloss. This idea is as old as the hills.

Plus, lithium has serious side-effects on the central nervous system, lithium levels in the blood have to be CLOSELY monitored to avoid kidney damage, AND it is the drug of choice for Manic Depressive Disorder.

And they're even going the gimmicky route by adding some sort of device or mechanism to the patent, just so they can have it declared a "medical device" rather than a medical procedure, so they can enforce their patent rights in the US (it is now illegal to try to enforce patent rights for medical procedures in the US, since 1996 -- there has to be a device or the patent can't be enforced.)

Looks to me that this is a patent driven by business concerns RATHER than true results and looks like Daphne Zohar and the gang over at Follica are just pure business people, bean-counters and MBA types cranking out IP and elaborate vaporware to try to increase the valuation of their company...

They've been hanging out in Silicon Beantown for too long...




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

gmonasco

21.03.2011, 02:17

@ roger_that

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

<<Plus, lithium is the drug of choice for Manic Depressive Disorder.>>

If it treats hair loss *and* manic depression, for some of us that's a win-win situation ...
:-D




gmonasco is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

astressin-b

21.03.2011, 03:29

@ gmonasco

Wounding the scalp safely...

The safest and most effective way for an at home experimenter to wound the scalp without risking permanent damage is to use some sort of highly adhesive tape repeatedly applied to the scalp and then pulled off.

That would remove the upper layer of the epidermis while leaving the basal layer undamaged. You would need to find good strong tape though to reduce the number of times the tape needs to be applied. This would be much less risky than the medical sandpaper which some have used.

This experiment is at least doable for the at home experimenter.




astressin-b is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

21.03.2011, 05:31

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

Wow – you guys are fast readers …

The original patent paper has 263 pages – relative easy written and luckily with lots of references for most claims, but of course not for THE essential claims. Instead of, they simply mention (repeatedly) something like ...

“Without being bound to any [scientific] theory, the intermittent lithium treatments or pulse lithium treatments may achieve these results by …”

Anyway, currently I’m just on page 135, including some “cross-reading” (references etc), making some notes - and lots of breaks.

My provisionally conclusion: “No comment”!




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Freddie555

21.03.2011, 06:01

@ roger_that

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» If they're messing around with Lithium for hairloss, they're even more
» desperate and unimaginative than I thought.
»
» I believe there have already been numerous patents in the US using lithium
» for hairloss. This idea is as old as the hills.

Yea i did not get a good vibe off it either. If they are messing around with lithium and stuff, it does not sound like anything promising is happening.

I was expecting they had some major breakthrough in getting stem cells to become hair progenitor cells or something.

This does not sound like its going to turn a NW7 into an NW2. I would not be surprised if it did not turn a NW3 into a NW2 ! I hope I'm wrong but it sure sounds like another Gho story in the making.




Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
"When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001

Freddie555

21.03.2011, 06:05

@ cal

New Follica patent!

» I've been a believer that HM is coming ever since I realized that Follica &
» Histogen were barking up very similar trees.
»
» Doing it with growth factors is simple, elegant, and cheap. All this other
» stuff (Aderans, Acell, plucking, etc) looks unnecessarily complicated and
» clumsy in comparison.

Sorry dude but you got it backwards. The cure can only come from hair cloning. Its the only thing that will turn a NW7 into a NW2. Dr. Roland Lauster and hopefully Aderans are on the right path.

Rubbing lithium and growth factors into your head is not going to bring back dead follicles or return you to the days when you hair was full and thick.

I sincerly hope however I'm wrong and Histogen stuff works like a miracle drug.

But Follica looks like they are out of the race for a cure in my books. They are grasping at straws with this lithium stuff IMO.




Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
"When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001

Iron_Man

21.03.2011, 06:09

@ Freddie555

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» I hope I'm wrong but it
» sure sounds like another Gho story in the making.

Cool - this means their final outcome will be very successful and groundbreaking too.




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Iron_Man

21.03.2011, 06:12

@ Freddie555

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» I was expecting they had some major breakthrough in getting stem cells to
» become hair progenitor cells or something.

That is just one thing they claim are able to accomplish ...




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Freddie555

21.03.2011, 06:27
(edited by Freddie555, 21.03.2011, 07:55)

@ Iron_Man

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» That is just one thing they claim are able to accomplish ...

I'll believe it when I see it.

If its anything like Gho's research, we're doomed




Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
"When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001

cal

21.03.2011, 10:15

@ Freddie555

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new hairs with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings. We could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs androgen-resistant like in the donor zone.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

21.03.2011, 15:26

@ cal

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new hairs
» with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings. We
» could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs androgen-resistant
» like in the donor zone.

Do you think people could potentially use topical estrogen after any sort of wounding method even something like PRP to try to influence the hairs to become androgen-resistant?



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

googoo

21.03.2011, 16:02

@ GoGiants1

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» » I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new
» hairs
» » with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings. We
» » could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs
» androgen-resistant
» » like in the donor zone.
»
» Do you think people could potentially use topical estrogen after any sort
» of wounding method even something like PRP to try to influence the hairs to
» become androgen-resistant?

they made it sound like there is more steps than just the one step of a topical estrogen. it sounded like before a topical estrogen could make the follicles dht-resistant these other steps (lithium for example, have to be taken to allow the follicles to be re-set without androgen-sensitivity. I think they're saying that f you just use the estrogen cream without the other steps too then the follicles would not become impervious to androgens.




googoo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

21.03.2011, 16:31

@ googoo

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» » » I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new
» » hairs
» » » with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings.
» We
» » » could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs
» » androgen-resistant
» » » like in the donor zone.
» »
» » Do you think people could potentially use topical estrogen after any
» sort
» » of wounding method even something like PRP to try to influence the hairs
» to
» » become androgen-resistant?
»
» they made it sound like there is more steps than just the one step of a
» topical estrogen. it sounded like before a topical estrogen could make the
» follicles dht-resistant these other steps (lithium for example, have to be
» taken to allow the follicles to be re-set without androgen-sensitivity. I
» think they're saying that f you just use the estrogen cream without the
» other steps too then the follicles would not become impervious to
» androgens.

So lets say instead of the minoxidil and the yag laser, someone uses needling and PRP for the wounding part and then starts applying topical estrogen, could that potentially work?



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cal

21.03.2011, 22:40

@ GoGiants1

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

Just putting topical estrogen onto our existing hairs isn't gonna won't work. People have been experimenting with that for years. I'm pretty sure even wounding experiments have been done by a few people.

I assume that whatever impact the topical estrogen has would be useful while creating or reactivating balded follicles with Follica's main program.




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roger_that

MARYLAND,
22.03.2011, 00:12

@ cal

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new hairs
» with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings. We
» could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs androgen-resistant
» like in the donor zone.

Sheesh, doctors have been experimenting with topical estrogen a long time now... It's nothing new. All it can do is (barely) slow down MPB hairloss, not reverse it.




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roger_that

MARYLAND,
22.03.2011, 00:25

@ googoo

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» they made it sound like there is more steps than just the one step of a
» topical estrogen. it sounded like before a topical estrogen could make the
» follicles dht-resistant these other steps (lithium for example, have to be
» taken to allow the follicles to be re-set without androgen-sensitivity. I
» think they're saying that f you just use the estrogen cream without the
» other steps too then the follicles would not become impervious to
» androgens.

First of all, ANYTHING you use as a topical ALWAYS penetrates the skin and the bloodstream. It's called "bioabsorption". THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. So, the topical estrogen WILL get into your system and will tend to cause boob growth, higher pitched voice, loss of muscle mass, loss of libido, etc.

I'm not saying these side-effects will be pronounced or major, but there WILL be a tendency to get them, depending on how much of the product is absorbed into your systemic circulation. And SOME product WILL be absorbed!

Secondly, you guys should know some that dermatologists have been prescribing various concoctions of topical estrogen with men for MPB for at least 20 years now. THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

Thirdly, you should know that the MOST it will do is slow down or (maybe) halt your hairloss, similar to Rogaine, Dutasteride, Finaseride, etc. It won't really re-grow any hair.

So, what do we have? A topical that can make you grow breasts, but doesn't really do anything to bring back your hair.

And people here are all excited about this as if it's some kind of revolutionary discovery?!

That just shows what a miserable state everything is in.

I think right now the ONLY things that look hopeful on the horizon are:

1) ARI
2) Dr. Roland Lauster's research at the Technical University of Berlin
3) Dr. Million's research Mulugeta at UCLA

And seriously, none of these look like a silver-bullet, they are just possibilities right now.

As for ACell and Follica -- both are slick American marketing hype and complete VAPORWARE bullsh*t.

And probably Histogen is somewhere in-between. It probably has some positive effect, maybe even a little better than some of the FDA-approved meds, but most likely is not nearly as good as what it's being hyped to be.




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Shooter

22.03.2011, 02:58

@ roger_that

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

Still waiting for that *news* Roger... still waiting.




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rev

your nightmares,
22.03.2011, 06:00

@ roger_that

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» First of all, ANYTHING you use as a topical ALWAYS penetrates the skin and
» the bloodstream. It's called "bioabsorption". THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.
» So, the topical estrogen WILL get into your system and will tend to cause
» boob growth, higher pitched voice, loss of muscle mass, loss of libido,
» etc.

You must buy the stuff (estrogen) by the crate; it's the only logical explanation why you're such a b*tch.



» I'm not saying these side-effects will be pronounced or major, but there
» WILL be a tendency to get them, depending on how much of the product is
» absorbed into your systemic circulation. And SOME product WILL be
» absorbed!
»
» Secondly, you guys should know some that dermatologists have been
» prescribing various concoctions of topical estrogen with men for MPB for at
» least 20 years now. THIS IS NOTHING NEW.
»
» Thirdly, you should know that the MOST it will do is slow down or (maybe)
» halt your hairloss, similar to Rogaine, Dutasteride, Finaseride, etc. It
» won't really re-grow any hair.
»
» So, what do we have? A topical that can make you grow breasts, but
» doesn't really do anything to bring back your hair.
»
» And people here are all excited about this as if it's some kind of
» revolutionary discovery?!
»
» That just shows what a miserable state everything is in.
»
» I think right now the ONLY things that look hopeful on the horizon are:
»
» 1) ARI
» 2) Dr. Roland Lauster's research at the Technical University of Berlin
» 3) Dr. Million's research Mulugeta at UCLA
»
» And seriously, none of these look like a silver-bullet, they are just
» possibilities right now.
»
» As for ACell and Follica -- both are slick American marketing hype and
» complete VAPORWARE bullsh*t.
»
» And probably Histogen is somewhere in-between. It probably has some
» positive effect, maybe even a little better than some of the FDA-approved
» meds, but most likely is not nearly as good as what it's being hyped to be.

It amazes me how someone who talks so much knows so little.




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---
Shittin on shills since 08.01.2008.

GoGiants1

22.03.2011, 06:19

@ roger_that

Follica is even more desperate than I thought...

» » I think the talk about influencing the androgen response of the new
» hairs
» » with topical estrogen is more interesting than the lithium dealings. We
» » could be looking at a feasible way to make the new hairs
» androgen-resistant
» » like in the donor zone.
»
» Sheesh, doctors have been experimenting with topical estrogen a long time
» now... It's nothing new. All it can do is (barely) slow down MPB hairloss,
» not reverse it.

They want to use estrogen after wounding the follicle, not just apply it topically to the scalp in hopes the follicle will regenerate as a non-dht sensitive follicle.



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Aleluia

22.03.2011, 16:05

@ Iron_Man

New Follica patent!

» Wow – you guys are fast readers …
»
» The original patent paper has 263 pages – relative easy written and luckily
» with lots of references for most claims, but of course not for THE
» essential claims. Instead of, they simply mention (repeatedly) something
» like ...
»
» “Without being bound to any [scientific] theory, the
» intermittent lithium treatments or pulse lithium treatments may achieve
» these results by …”

»
» Anyway, currently I’m just on page 135, including some “cross-reading”
» (references etc), making some notes - and lots of breaks.
»
» My provisionally conclusion: “No comment”!

hey iron_man.. i´m really waiting for your conclusions ok!??
thank you




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Stevie.Dee

22.03.2011, 17:10

@ Aleluia

New Follica patent!

If it would be that simple. Sorry if i had to choose between a Shampoo and and WNT injection well i would take my chances with the second option here




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Aleluia

24.03.2011, 12:37

@ Stevie.Dee

New Follica patent!

Hey guys... what about the stem cells?? i din´t see in follica´s list
i´m starting to believe, for the first time, they don´t have nothing that really works




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Aleluia

25.03.2011, 01:44

@ Aleluia

I think that follica will be a stronger minox...

I´ve read the whole text and i believe in 2 things:
1) This is just a piece of follica´s treatment (in the beginning of the text they say that lithium can be used with another treatments)
OR
2) It´s a little sad, but I think follica will be just a stronger minox... not baldness great treatment




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Huntress

06.04.2011, 07:53

@ Z79

New Follica patent!

» Could this be the final product? It has to be what they are testing in
» their clinical trial. Only the abstract is online for the moment but this
» is what it says :
»
» The invention relates to intermittent lithium treatments, or a single pulse
» lithium treatment for modulating hair growth in human subjects. Uses of
» compositions containing compounds that liberate lithium ions are described,
» including adjuvants and devices for administration. The intermittent
» treatment protocol involves multiple courses of lithium treatment
» interrupted by lithium treatment "holidays." For the single pulse protocol,
» a dose of lithium is administered over a short period of time. The lithium
» treatment(s) can be used in combination with other treatments for the
» enhancement or inhibition of hair growth. Such combination treatments may
» involve mechanical or physical treatments that cause integumental
» perturbation (e.g. such as electrology (electrolysis), laser, intense
» pulsed light, dermabrasion, etc.); immune stimulation (e.g., such as
» adjuvants, antigens, cytokines, growth factors, etc. ); and/or chemical
» treatments (e.g., that cause integumental perturbation or that enhance or
» inhibit hair growth); and/or surgical treatments (e.g., hair transplant)
» for the enhancement or inhibition of hair growth. The combination
» treatment(s) may be administered concurrently with, or during the
» "holidays'" between, cycles of intermittent lithium treatments; or
» concurrently with, or before and/or after the pulse lithium treatment.
»
» http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20110317&CC=WO&NR=2011031990A1&KC=A1
»
»
» EDIT. Full patent here
» http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2011031990A1.html


interesting, thanks for sharing this...




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