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Spanish Dude

12.04.2011, 18:00
 

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal? (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

Thread locked

Dr. Gho has published an article in the "Burns" Journal, regarding his HST method of "hair multiplication". The article was accepted on Sept-2010.

In this article, Dr. Gho shows before and after photos of a patient who underwent the HST technique.

These photos are supposed to prove that the donor area regenerates after extraction of 3858 grafts.

But when you look closely, you see that in the after photo:
-hairs grow in different direction.
-and the bandage fits against the head in a different angle.

[image]
[image]
[image]




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

12.04.2011, 18:22

@ Spanish Dude

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

You're more paranoid than I thought - that's my analysis.




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

johnp

E-mail

New Jersey,
12.04.2011, 18:52

@ Spanish Dude

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

To me the ultimate proof is when Dr. Gho can prove that both the donor and the recipient grew, from the same follicle.

Proofing donor regeneration is only half the story; the other half is to prove that the same transected follicle is able to grow into a terminal hair in the recipient site.

1 follicle growing in 2 different spots.

I want an experiment that involves only 1 follicle.



johnp has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
johnp is located in NEW JERSEY and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

Iron_Man

12.04.2011, 19:29

@ johnp

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

» I want an experiment that involves only 1 follicle.

Here you are ...
[image]




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Stevie.Dee

12.04.2011, 20:27

@ Iron_Man

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

Ok i make it really short

And SpanishDude why did the court rule in favor for Gho "Two times"? Why are there burning victims now whose donor area is normal?

Na this is ridiculous i wont answer




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

12.04.2011, 21:03

@ Stevie.Dee

The Advertising Commission didn't prove anything

 

» Ok i make it really short
»
» And SpanishDude why did the court rule in favor for Gho "Two times"? Why
» are there burning victims now whose donor area is normal?
»
» Na this is ridiculous i wont answer

The "court" you mention, was just an Advertising Commision. There was no real trial, no real court, no real judge. The process was just a minor online bureocracy.
The Benelux doctors filed an online complaint to the Dutch Advertising Commision (The "Reclame Code Commissie" or RCC). The RCC then accepted the information provided by Gho.

Basically, the RCC decided in favour of Gho because of the JDT Article. They considered that this was a peer reviewed journal, and thus, the article should be credible, so the technique should work.
There was no scientific investigation made by the RCC. They don't have the resources for that. They just used old evidence provided by Gho, and considered sufficiently possible that Gho is telling the truth. Also, in case of doubt, they would always rule in favour of Gho. "In dubio pro reo". In case of doubt, Gho is innoccent.

All the process is made online, there is no real court, no judge, no trial.
And I don't think the persons at the RCC's Committee have any special knowledge about hair transplants.

Also, the Benelux doctors have proven to be quite incompetent providing information against Gho.
After the first failure, they appealed the decission of the RCC, but they failed again to convince the RCC that Gho is lying.

When you add these things up, you realize that, the dutch Advertising Commission has not provided anything new to us.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevie.Dee

12.04.2011, 21:47

@ Spanish Dude

The Advertising Commission didn't prove anything

 

Ahhhh ok and why did they question the CHairman of the Burning Victims society? I read this whole thing and the deceide in favor for Gho thats it, because the evidence was clear and the backup persons as well.

And your picture well is pretty stupid because this doesnt prove anything, cause i doubt that you have read the scientific paper where almost everything is explained.

Oh and btw someone who was bancrupt years ago wouldnt be so damn stupid to advertise something, which wouldnt work because if it wouldnt work (what i doubt)the HSI would be plastered with lawsuits but instead of this they gave patients a guanrantee on donor regrowth while other clinics demand a paper where you sign to not speak bad about them :-)

Must be pretty hard for you, when your little pictures are just dust in the wind. Also when was the time where you were right anyway? I cant tell any specific moment.

And yes i have to agree you are more then just paranoid. I dont know if you are aware but Iron.Man has a depleated donor, but he will undergo a Gho "transplant" some time this year, do you really think Iron.Man is so stupid to jeoparidze his last donor material?




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

12.04.2011, 21:52

@ Spanish Dude

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

» But when you look closely, you see that in the after photo:
» -hairs grow in different direction.
» -and the bandage fits against the head in a different angle.
» [image]

Ok, let’s discuss HOW paranoid you’re, “Researcher Spanish Dude“…

The BEFORE photo (a) shows the occipital side of a female burn victim before her very first extraction procedure in 2005. You can CLEARLY see that this shaved area is MOIST.

Why is this area moist?
[image]
That means, before photo a) was taken, they applied (with a certain pressure and sheet) chloorhhexidine 2% lotion (this stuff is a little bit oily too) straight vertically from above to below this area. Of course, practically ALL hairs show in the same direction due to this disinfection procedure (similar effect like gelling your hair).

The AFTER photo (b) shows the same area of this patient after her 4th extraction procedure, directly BEFORE her 5th procedure. You can CLEARLY see that that they already started the 5th procedure (you can see some extractions and the bloody bandage) and in this moment they took the photo. In the meanwhile, until they made the AFTER photo, the hairs already started to dry and moved back in their normal direction.

Concerning Spanish Dud’s bandage angle bullsh’t:

For instance/comparison, which angle has the bandage in this case?

http://www.cicatrix.de/narben_haarstammzelltransplantation.html
(scroll down and click on the photos to enlarge)

The “angle” of such a bandage depends on WHAT?

Basically …

a) the style & quantity of the patients unshaved hair;
b) the pressure & angle (from the back of the head to the forehead) someone attaches the bandage(ring).

Anyway, it has CLEARLY nothing to do with the shape of a patients head (what an idiot!).

Conclusion #1
If Dr. Gho would like to “fake” with photos, I guess he has much better photos to do so.

Conclusion #2
Spanish Dud is an idiot. "OOPS!"




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Iron_Man

12.04.2011, 22:05

@ Spanish Dude

The Advertising Commission didn't prove anything

 

» After the first failure, they appealed the decission of the RCC, but they
» failed again to convince the RCC that Gho is lying.

Really? The RCC?

No Spanish Dud, not the RCC - this time the plaintiffs failed to convince the so called "College van Beroep" ...

http://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie/CBb/Pages/default.aspx

And this time, the decision is final!

That means, Dr. Gho has the right to say he is doing HAIRMULTIPLICATION.

Why? Because he IS doing hairmultiplication. :-D

btw - nobody missed you. Why? Because you're an idiot.




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

GoGiants1

12.04.2011, 22:05

@ Iron_Man

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

yikes Spanish Dude, that was an impressive rebuttal I must say, not to further instigate an argument.



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

12.04.2011, 22:09

@ Spanish Dude

Spanish Dude

 

For the sake of argument, if you find that this picture is legitimate and the donor indeed looks as Gho presents in those pictures would you change the way you think of Gho and his procedure?



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

johnp

E-mail

New Jersey,
12.04.2011, 22:11

@ Stevie.Dee

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

» Ok i make it really short
»
» And SpanishDude why did the court rule in favor for Gho "Two times"? Why
» are there burning victims now whose donor area is normal?
»
» Na this is ridiculous i wont answer

Stevie can you show me pics of the burn victims whose donor area is normal after going to Gho?

Iron Man thanks for the pic, I thought it didn't exist.



johnp has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
johnp is located in NEW JERSEY and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

Iron_Man

12.04.2011, 22:21

@ johnp

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

» Stevie can you show me pics of the burn victims whose donor area is normal
» after going to Gho?

Here you'll find some ...

http://www.ebca.info/userfiles/2EBCA%20EBCA%20Hair%20science%20Institute.25nov10.pdf




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

HMorHT

12.04.2011, 22:29

@ Spanish Dude

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

I think maybe the patient tilted his head slightly to the right when the after pics were taken, that explains why the hair direction is different.




HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

12.04.2011, 22:58

@ HMorHT

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

» I think maybe the patient tilted his head slightly to the right when the
» after pics were taken, that explains why the hair direction is different.

no way, the hairs are "tilted" only on the sides. In the center they are totally vertical.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

12.04.2011, 23:29

@ Iron_Man

The direction is not due to gels

 

So, according to Iron_Man, in the "before" photo the hairs are oriented vertically because Gho applied some sort of "gel"? Now, that must be a very strong gel to fix those very little hairs, don't you think? And in order to fix those little hairs, in a forced direction downwards, they would have to be fixed flat to the scalp's surface. But if you look at the long hairs on the left side, you see that they are hanging freely inspite of the suppossed "strong gel".
So, no, Iron_Man, the direction of the little hairs is different in the before and after photo, and it is not because of any gel, but because they belong to different parts of the head, or maybe even different persons.

And yes, Iron_Man, the bandage sits against the head, so it clearly indicates the head's profile, and you see a different profile in the before and in the after photo. Not in the photo that you have linked because you oviously have posted a rare case where the bandage is slanted, but in our particular case, the bandage is placed in the same fashion in the before and after photo, in both cases, horizontally.

The different head profile in the before and after photo, indicates that the photos are showing different parts of the back of the head. The before photo is showing the lower paert of the head, and the after photo is showing the higher part of the head. This would also explain the different hair orientation.


» » But when you look closely, you see that in the after photo:
» » -hairs grow in different direction.
» » -and the bandage fits against the head in a different angle.
» » [image]
»
» Ok, let’s discuss HOW paranoid you’re, “Researcher Spanish Dude“…
»
» The BEFORE photo (a) shows the occipital side of a female burn victim
» before her very first extraction procedure in 2005. You can CLEARLY see
» that this shaved area is MOIST.
»
» Why is this area moist?
» [image]
» That means, before photo a) was taken, they applied (with a certain
» pressure and sheet) chloorhhexidine 2% lotion (this stuff is a little bit
» oily too) straight vertically from above to below this area. Of course,
» practically ALL hairs show in the same direction due to this disinfection
» procedure (similar effect like gelling your hair).
»
» The AFTER photo (b) shows the same area of this patient after her 4th
» extraction procedure, directly BEFORE her 5th procedure. You can CLEARLY
» see that that they already started the 5th procedure (you can see some
» extractions and the bloody bandage) and in this moment they took the photo.
» In the meanwhile, until they made the AFTER photo, the hairs already
» started to dry and moved back in their normal direction.
»
» Concerning Spanish Dud’s bandage angle bullsh’t:
»
» For instance/comparison, which angle has the bandage in this case?
»
» http://www.cicatrix.de/narben_haarstammzelltransplantation.html
» (scroll down and click on the photos to enlarge)
»
» The “angle” of such a bandage depends on WHAT?
»
» Basically …
»
» a) the style & quantity of the patients unshaved hair;
» b) the pressure & angle (from the back of the head to the forehead) someone
» attaches the bandage(ring).
»
» Anyway, it has CLEARLY nothing to do with the shape of a patients head
» (what an idiot!).
»
» Conclusion #1
» If Dr. Gho would like to “fake” with photos, I guess he has much better
» photos to do so.
»
» Conclusion #2
» Spanish Dud is an idiot. "OOPS!"




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

12.04.2011, 23:36

@ Iron_Man

Poor Iron_Man

 

No? Not the RCC? Really?
So are you telling me that there was a different contention aside from that of the RCC?
Could you please give me the details of that contention? The results?

Do you even know the meaning of the expression "College van Beroep"?


» No Spanish Dud, not the RCC - this time the plaintiffs failed to
» convince the so called "[b][/b]" ...
»
» http://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie/CBb/Pages/default.aspx
»
» And this time, the decision is final!
»
» That means, Dr. Gho has the right to say he is doing HAIRMULTIPLICATION.
»
» Why? Because he IS doing hairmultiplication. :-D
»
» btw - nobody missed you. Why? Because you're an idiot.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.04.2011, 23:37

@ Spanish Dude

Is Dr. Gho using false photo evidence in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

Spanish Dude, I think the differences you are pointing out here are trivial.

Maybe the angle at which the head is tilted is different from one photo to the next. Maybe a lot of things. I think it's pretty clear that it's the same person. The hair color looks the same, the hair density is virtually the same.

ALSO, you don't know exactly how Gho performs his procedure, do you?

If you do, or if you think you do, please tell us, exactly how does Gho perform this HST procedure?

Does he transect the FUs while still in the donor site?

Or does he remove the entire FU from the donor site first, transect them ex-vivo, and then re-insert one half of the transsection into the donor hole?

If you think you know the answers to these questions, how do you know for sure?

Also, why does the angle of the bandage matter? (I'm not even sure it's a bandage; but whatever it is, couldn't they be holding it at a slightly different angle in each photo?)

Why is that important?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.04.2011, 23:54

@ Spanish Dude

GHO WON A SUBSEQUENT JUDICIAL PROCEEDING IN THE COURT OF APPEAL

 

» » Ok i make it really short
» »
» » And SpanishDude why did the court rule in favor for Gho "Two times"? Why
» » are there burning victims now whose donor area is normal?
» »
» » Na this is ridiculous i wont answer
»
» The "court" you mention, was just an Advertising Commision. There was no
» real trial, no real court, no real judge. The process was just a minor
» online bureocracy.
» The Benelux doctors filed an online complaint to the Dutch Advertising
» Commision (The "Reclame Code Commissie" or RCC). The RCC then accepted the
» information provided by Gho.\

The first decision made by the administrative body, the RCC, was appealed by the plaintiffs JUDICIALLY, to a judicial Court of Appeal, and there was a judicial proceeding with a magistrate.

Gho won a second time in a COURT OF APPEAL.

Read the English translation of the complete report in Dutch that was posted here.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 00:07

@ roger_that

Another graphic explaining better what I mean

 

Lets see if you understand now:

[image]

» Spanish Dude, I think the differences you are pointing out here are
» trivial.
»
» Maybe the angle at which the head is tilted is different from one photo to
» the next. Maybe a lot of things. I think it's pretty clear that it's the
» same person. The hair color looks the same, the hair density is virtually
» the same.
»
» ALSO, you don't know exactly how Gho performs his procedure, do you?
»
» If you do, or if you think you do, please tell us, exactly how does Gho
» perform this HST procedure?
»
» Does he transect the FUs while still in the donor site?
»
» Or does he remove the entire FU from the donor site first, transect them
» ex-vivo, and then re-insert one half of the transsection into the donor
» hole?
»
» If you think you know the answers to these questions, how do you know for
» sure?
»
» Also, why does the angle of the bandage matter? (I'm not even sure it's a
» bandage; but whatever it is, couldn't they be holding it at a slightly
» different angle in each photo?)
»
» Why is that important?




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 00:16

@ roger_that

IT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE RCC.

 

Roger, the RCC has a Board of Appeals!!
When the benelux doctors decided to appeal the first decission of the RCC,
the case passed to the Board of Appeals of the RCC.
There was no real trial, no real court, no real judge.
It was the RCC all the time!!


» » » Ok i make it really short
» » »
» » » And SpanishDude why did the court rule in favor for Gho "Two times"?
» Why
» » » are there burning victims now whose donor area is normal?
» » »
» » » Na this is ridiculous i wont answer
» »
» » The "court" you mention, was just an Advertising Commision. There was no
» » real trial, no real court, no real judge. The process was just a minor
» » online bureocracy.
» » The Benelux doctors filed an online complaint to the Dutch Advertising
» » Commision (The "Reclame Code Commissie" or RCC). The RCC then accepted
» the
» » information provided by Gho.\
»
» The first decision made by the administrative body, the RCC, was appealed
» by the plaintiffs JUDICIALLY, to a judicial Court of Appeal, and there was
» a judicial proceeding with a magistrate.
»
» Gho won a second time in a COURT OF APPEAL.
»
» Read the English translation of the complete report in Dutch that was
» posted here.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevie.Dee

13.04.2011, 00:43

@ Spanish Dude

IT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE RCC.

 

No Spanish Turd its not convincing because the left side is almost the exact angle.

Better luck next time. You are not convincing and you know what the anser here is?

You cant create the same situation twice thats impossible, but even if your idea would be right, the donor area would overlap in this case. And therefore even if Gho would have cheated, the result remains the same, the donor is almost intact




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
13.04.2011, 00:46

@ Spanish Dude

Another graphic explaining better what I mean

 

» Lets see if you understand now:

Your graphics are biased because you are showing more of the outline of the head than even is shown in Gho's photographs. So how can that purport to accurately represent them?

Also, assuming your graphics are supposed to represent reality, then the different angle of the hairs in image #2 could be caused by the top of the head being tilted further forward (i.e., away from the viewer) in image #2.

Which by the way, is exactly how your own graphic #2 appears. Since you've drawn it with less of the back and crown hair visible in #2, then that would indicate that in #2 the head is tilted further forward.

I don't know why you'd draw it that way, but assuming that is what you intended, your own graphic actually tends to support my hypothesis that the head is at different angles from photo #1 to #2 -- rather than debunking that idea.

In any event, the whole thing, when looked at in perspective, is trivial. You are over-thinking this. The facts are what the facts are.

Would Gho have bothered to spend the money and patent anything if he didn't have some unique new idea? Why even bother to go through all that work?

Another thing, both the US (from 1997) and most countries in the EU (from earlier) have laws prohibiting injunctions or damage awards to plaintiffs in lawsuits for infringement of patented MEDICAL PROCEDURES.

This is a MEDICAL PROCEDURE, without a protectable medical device (although I hear different accounts that Gho has been trying to develop an accompanying medical device.)

Therefore his patent is not defensible in court, neither in the USA, nor in Canada, nor in most Western European countries.

Of course he knows this, and it certainly didn't stop him from applying for (and being granted) the patent anyway. Since that can still be done, why not?

Notice how he says on the HSI site words to the effect, "No one else is doing the patented Gho HST procedure. Don't let them tell you that their procedure is HST."

The reason he says this is because he cannot defend his patent in court, because it's for a MEDICAL PROCEDURE.

BTW he is booked solid through the end of 2011 or up to 2012 or something. At this point he really doesn't care about licensing it out. If he licenses it, that just gives patients to his competitors. And since other doctors don't really HAVE to license it (since there is no IP protection for a medical procedure patent), they aren't banging on his door to get licenses, either.

The best strategy for now for Gho is to play up the "patent" and "uniqueness" angle, rattle sabres about suing other docs for infringement while knowing he can't win, and also knowing they know that, and marketing HST among the European and transatlantic wealthy, by word of mouth, so he's always booked.

I think he has something here.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

Sasa

13.04.2011, 01:54

@ Spanish Dude

IT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE RCC.

 

» Roger, the RCC has a Board of Appeals!!
» When the benelux doctors decided to appeal the first decission of the RCC,
» the case passed to the Board of Appeals of the RCC.
» There was no real trial, no real court, no real judge.
» It was the RCC all the time!!
»


Do you really think that those who underwent the trial judge can accept to be judge by those who had no right and competence to do that? Can you find out the name of so stupid lawyers?




Sasa is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 02:15
(edited by Spanish Dude, 13.04.2011, 02:49)

@ roger_that

Graphic modified.

 

No, the head is not tilted. Tilting the head forward wouldn't significantly change the perceived direction of the hairs nor the bandage's contour.

My graphic, modified further to clarify my post.

[image]

» Would Gho have bothered to spend the money and patent anything if he didn't
» have some unique new idea? Why even bother to go through all that work?

Please, don't play the fool. Many many times, patents are created just as advertising tools. Look at Gho, here and there, boasting about his "patented procedure". Its been like this in the last 12 years.

Yes, you are right in the second part of your post. In fact, the Search Authority said basically, that Gho's patent is of little value.


» » Lets see if you understand now:
»
» Your graphics are biased because you are showing more of the outline of the
» head than even is shown in Gho's photographs. So how can that purport to
» accurately represent them?
»
» Also, assuming your graphics are supposed to represent reality, then the
» different angle of the hairs in image #2 could be caused by the top of the
» head being tilted further forward (i.e., away from the viewer) in image
» #2.
»
» Which by the way, is exactly how your own graphic #2 appears. Since you've
» drawn it with less of the back and crown hair visible in #2, then that
» would indicate that in #2 the head is tilted further forward.
»
» I don't know why you'd draw it that way, but assuming that is what you
» intended, your own graphic actually tends to support my hypothesis
» that the head is at different angles from photo #1 to #2 -- rather than
» debunking that idea.
»
» In any event, the whole thing, when looked at in perspective, is trivial.
» You are over-thinking this. The facts are what the facts are.
»
» Would Gho have bothered to spend the money and patent anything if he didn't
» have some unique new idea? Why even bother to go through all that work?
»
» Another thing, both the US (from 1997) and most countries in the EU (from
» earlier) have laws prohibiting injunctions or damage awards to plaintiffs
» in lawsuits for infringement of patented MEDICAL PROCEDURES.
»
» This is a MEDICAL PROCEDURE, without a protectable medical device (although
» I hear different accounts that Gho has been trying to develop an
» accompanying medical device.)
»
» Therefore his patent is not defensible in court, neither in the USA, nor in
» Canada, nor in most Western European countries.
»
» Of course he knows this, and it certainly didn't stop him from applying for
» (and being granted) the patent anyway. Since that can still be done, why
» not?
»
» Notice how he says on the HSI site words to the effect, "No one else is
» doing the patented Gho HST procedure. Don't let them tell you that their
» procedure is HST."
»
» The reason he says this is because he cannot defend his patent in court,
» because it's for a MEDICAL PROCEDURE.
»
» BTW he is booked solid through the end of 2011 or up to 2012 or something.
» At this point he really doesn't care about licensing it out. If he
» licenses it, that just gives patients to his competitors. And since other
» doctors don't really HAVE to license it (since there is no IP protection
» for a medical procedure patent), they aren't banging on his door to get
» licenses, either.
»
» The best strategy for now for Gho is to play up the "patent" and
» "uniqueness" angle, rattle sabres about suing other docs for infringement
» while knowing he can't win, and also knowing they know that, and marketing
» HST among the European and transatlantic wealthy, by word of mouth, so he's
» always booked.
»
» I think he has something here.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 02:17

@ Sasa

IT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE RCC.

 

» Do you really think that those who underwent the trial judge can accept to
» be judge by those who had no right and competence to do that? Can you find
» out the name of so stupid lawyers?

could you explain again what do you mean? I don't understand you.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Duck

13.04.2011, 02:56

@ Spanish Dude

IT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE RCC.

 

What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is former Gho patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear pics or video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court cases.?? We just want to see the goods!




Duck is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 03:24

@ Duck

13 years of games!

 

» What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is former Gho
» patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear pics or
» video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court cases.?? We
» just want to see the goods!

Gho has been been playing with us for 13 years already dude!! 13 YEARS!!




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

HMorHT

13.04.2011, 03:47

@ Spanish Dude

13 years of games!

 

» » What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is former
» Gho
» » patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear pics
» or
» » video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court cases.??
» We
» » just want to see the goods!
»
» Gho has been been playing with us for 13 years already dude!! 13 YEARS!!

It's very difficult for anyone to stay in business fooling people for 13 years especially with hair transplants. Shouldn't we see tons of complaints by now?




HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 04:39

@ HMorHT

13 years of games!

 

» » » What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is
» former
» » Gho
» » » patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear pics
» » or
» » » video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court cases.??
» » We
» » » just want to see the goods!
» »
» » Gho has been been playing with us for 13 years already dude!! 13 YEARS!!
»
» It's very difficult for anyone to stay in business fooling people for 13
» years especially with hair transplants. Shouldn't we see tons of complaints
» by now?

shouldn't we see tons of wow results by now?




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

HMorHT

13.04.2011, 04:45

@ Spanish Dude

13 years of games!

 

» » » » What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is
» » former
» » » Gho
» » » » patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear
» pics
» » » or
» » » » video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court
» cases.??
» » » We
» » » » just want to see the goods!
» » »
» » » Gho has been been playing with us for 13 years already dude!! 13
» YEARS!!
» »
» » It's very difficult for anyone to stay in business fooling people for 13
» » years especially with hair transplants. Shouldn't we see tons of
» complaints
» » by now?
»
» shouldn't we see tons of wow results by now?

We are more likely to hear about bad results or complaints, happy patients usually move on with their lives.

That we don't see tons of wow results doesn't mean he is running a sc_am.




HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 05:14

@ HMorHT

13 years of games!

 

» » » » » What any of us ever wanted to see in the last ten years here. Is
» » » former
» » » » Gho
» » » » » patients sign in here on this forum or any other forum with clear
» » pics
» » » » or
» » » » » video better yet and talk about there results. papers , court
» » cases.??
» » » » We
» » » » » just want to see the goods!
» » » »
» » » » Gho has been been playing with us for 13 years already dude!! 13
» » YEARS!!
» » »
» » » It's very difficult for anyone to stay in business fooling people for
» 13
» » » years especially with hair transplants. Shouldn't we see tons of
» » complaints
» » » by now?
» »
» » shouldn't we see tons of wow results by now?
»
» We are more likely to hear about bad results or complaints, happy patients
» usually move on with their lives.
»
» That we don't see tons of wow results doesn't mean he is running a sc_am.

If there were wow results, dr. Gho would be trumpeting them all over the TV shows, like he trumpets Joling, and the other "cool boys" who btw only get normal-looking FUEs.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

13.04.2011, 05:26

@ Spanish Dude

13 years of games!

 

» If there were wow results, dr. Gho would be trumpeting them all over the TV
» shows, like he trumpets Joling, and the other "cool boys" who btw only get
» normal-looking FUEs.

Yea, but they all have more healthy terminal hairs on their heads than Spanish Dude - that's for sure!




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Stevie.Dee

13.04.2011, 13:58

@ Iron_Man

13 years of Experience

 

The results so far are ok considering they used less grafts on very drastic cases.

If i am not mistaken all those results are most of the time NW6 who got hair planted all over the head to create a overall the same density, after that i guess he will do fine tuning and fill it with full density.

As you can see far NW6 candidates got hairs plastered all over to at least dimish the bald spots, where frontal sufferers got good results.

Thats the reason why i would go for a good full FUE in my frontal zone with maximum density and the rest all with Gho. And before people keep bickering here, i asked some of my student collegues if somethink like gho could work anyway. They said exactly " This is actually old news since the days when people knew about stem cells. Stem cells consist of the informations to regnerate themselves when something is missing. Also they did tests like this early on, to prove if humans in fact are capable of regenerate certain organs or so"

They also told me that the 2 out of 1 thing is in fact a reality as long as sufficient stem cells are around to form their structure. Its also because we can be lucky that hair (visible ones) are dead materia, so its not per se needed to transplant. They told me that Gho or anyone else could also just transplant the stem cell areal it would be the same for most reasons.

Another thing we discussed was the fact if it could be possible to actually get more follicles then you were born with or a higher density then your natural. The answer was a simple " Yes because with this, you dont create hair areas, you instead established a new donor area.

You could think about it as his here. Lets assume your head has four areas

1) frontal
2) second frontal above the ears
3) crown or vertex
4)insert what you want here

With HST you create another donor zone instead of filling up bald spots. If you would harvest your whole donor area at once and put it in your frontal zone (impossible because this would be more then 300% of your normal density) You would then have the following result

1) frontal zone equals donor area
2) second frontal still bald
3) vertex/crown still bald

But now you have four areas of donor hair : Left side, right side, back of head and frontal zone.

And yes even a NW7 person with a small horseshoe hair area could be NW1 again (but it would take some time) thats the reason, why i am gonna start within the next 2 years, so that i can enjoy the rest of my life without hairloss and if i wanna pack it more dense, i think there will also be a solution available.

And thats the deal here, fact is the hairtransplant industry is driving a car which is heading down the drain and i can see the cliffs pretty near.

And to refer to the picture again, this result is impossible with FUE you would have seen a total destroyed donor area with white dots all ovr this place. And SPanishDUde if you would have read carefully the scientific paper you would have seen the extreme close up pictures where there are areas, where hair was not growing after a few days but finally aftr a few months etc

The only question remaining here is, IF th use of Acell would increase Ghos Speed and result in over 100% regrowth etc. I hope he also experiments with that




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 15:08

@ Spanish Dude

Furthermore: its a female patient with no alopecia--meaning donor area is bigger

 

The patient is in fact a female. A female burn victim suppossedly with no alopecia.
This means that all non-burnt areas are good for harvesting. All non-burnt areas can be used as donor. Not just the back of the head.
So, it is very possible (and logical) that Gho harvested those 3858 grafts dispersely across all the available areas, not just the back of the head.
As a result, the donor areas got just slightly depleted.
Lets supposse the total harvestable donor is 300cm2. Then, 3858 grafts distributed across all this big donor area results in less than 13 grafts/cm2 which is a very low impact and barely noticeable. The donor area results almost unaffected.


[image]


» Dr. Gho has published an article in the "Burns" Journal, regarding his HST
» method of "hair multiplication". The article was accepted on Sept-2010.
»
» In this article, Dr. Gho shows before and after photos of a patient who
» underwent the HST technique.
»
» These photos are supposed to prove that the donor area regenerates after
» extraction of 3858 grafts.
»
» But when you look closely, you see that in the after photo:
» -hairs grow in different direction.
» -and the bandage fits against the head in a different angle.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

matigol

13.04.2011, 15:23

@ Stevie.Dee

HT-Forum

 

» The only question remaining here is,


There are far more questions remaining:

Where is the proof that Acell can grow a single hair(not fur)?
Why arent HT-"docs" like Hitzing, Cooley, Gho not able to take a single professional photo?
Why don`t we discuss this stuff in th HT-Forum?




matigol is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevie.Dee

13.04.2011, 15:27

@ Spanish Dude

Furthermore: its a female patient with no alopecia--meaning donor area is bigger

 

Ok now you are getting ridicolous, Gho and co clearly stated that even women their hair on top can thin out over time.

Also if they would have grabbed the hair from all around the head (ridicolus) they would have totally shaved the womans head.




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

GoGiants1

13.04.2011, 15:33

@ Spanish Dude

The direction is not due to gels

 

» So, according to Iron_Man, in the "before" photo the hairs are oriented
» vertically because Gho applied some sort of "gel"? Now, that must be a very
» strong gel to fix those very little hairs, don't you think?

No, I think you can make those hairs go in one direction even after the application of water, gel could certainly do it in my mind.



GoGiants1 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
GoGiants1 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 15:55

@ Stevie.Dee

Furthermore: its a female patient with no alopecia--meaning donor area is bigger

 

» Ok now you are getting ridicolous, Gho and co clearly stated that even
» women their hair on top can thin out over time.

In this case, its not even the TOP, which is burnt btw and is going to receive grafts.
Anyway, the truth is that most women don't suffer significant alopecia, and so, they don't have to restrict themselves to the back of the head for DHT resistant grafts.
In a male patient who has alopecia, you clearly have to harvest from a DHT resistant area that is limited. But in a female patient who has no alopecia (and this female patient has no alopecia, but she is bald because of a burn accident), you don't have that restriction and you can use a more extensive donor area. Not necessarily on the top, but you can go higher on the back and on the sides. Is that so difficult to understand?

»
» Also if they would have grabbed the hair from all around the head
» (ridicolus) they would have totally shaved the womans head.

You just need to shave the particular area that you are going to harvest in a session.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 15:57

@ matigol

HT-Forum

 

» » The only question remaining here is,
»
»
» There are far more questions remaining:
»
» Where is the proof that Acell can grow a single hair(not fur)?
» Why arent HT-"docs" like Hitzing, Cooley, Gho not able to take a single
» professional photo?
» Why don`t we discuss this stuff in th HT-Forum?

I will post my findings in the HT forum later.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 16:10

@ GoGiants1

The direction is not due to gels

 

» » So, according to Iron_Man, in the "before" photo the hairs are oriented
» » vertically because Gho applied some sort of "gel"? Now, that must be a
» very
» » strong gel to fix those very little hairs, don't you think?
»
» No, I think you can make those hairs go in one direction even after the
» application of water, gel could certainly do it in my mind.

I disagree. You can't tame a 3mm long shaft so easily. Besides, in the same before foto you can see the long hairs that are on the left, next to them, and you see thet they are hanging freely, so it doesn't seem to be any special "forcing fluid".




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevie.Dee

13.04.2011, 16:13

@ Spanish Dude

HT-Forum

 

Nope you dont understand. it doesnt matter what stuff you pull out of your as* it still remains WRONG. Just plain Wrong.

Even women have to live wit hthinning hair in the vertex area.

And right they use hair from the vertex are to transplant it 2cm to the left. You are just ridiculous and utterly stupid. You dont critizise the technique you criticize pictures.

So then Explain to all of Us WHY HST cannot work. Why is this according to you impossible?

@matigol : We are not speaking about Acell

PS : I know what you guys are up to, you both hate "surgical" procedures thats why you guys keep attacking those kind of things.

You are wrong with water or a fluid you can tame even 3mm hairs. You can even tame your beard if its 3mm, and those are thicker hairs.

You are just stupid thats all, you dont have any clues about anything and always come up with some " This person is a liar" stories. And if everything else fails you call me Leeroy Jenkins. You are ridiculous.

I bet you didnt even read the scientific paper or asked some guys who study cell biology.

I bet my as* if one Graft at Gho would cost 1 dollar SpanishDude and matigol would praise Gho all around




Stevie.Dee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

13.04.2011, 16:57

@ Spanish Dude

Furthermore: its a female patient with no alopecia--meaning donor area is bigger

 

» So, it is very possible (and logical) that Gho harvested those 3858 grafts
» dispersely across all the available areas, not just the back of the head.


Behind "KZ" is a real person - and this REAL person is fully aware about these photos and where Dr. Gho and Dr. Neumann published these photos. Also, other doctors and medical centers who threat these burn victims are FULLY aware about their patients as well as about when, where and which treatment they got from Dr. Gho - and about the results too. In short, such patients are well-known in the medical field! Such patients don't look like any Chinese in China!

Does the women in the video look like a Chinese women in China?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDb1n_XdpLo&feature=related




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 17:05

@ Stevie.Dee

HT-Forum

 

Stevie.Dee aka Leeroy.Jenkins:

1. Please, follow the thread structure correctly. You are replying in the wrong place.
2. This woman has a lot of hair on the sides, and because she doesn't suffer male alopecia, you can harvest higher on the back, and higher on the sides. IMO you can harvest 300cm2 on her. Lets consider 200cm2. 3858 grafts on 200cm2 results in less than 20 grafts/cm2.
3. It is clear that the before and after photos don't show the same donor area. The after picture shows a donor area that is much higher. This is totally misleading.
4. So it is very possible that Gho not just used 2 diferent donor areas in the back of the head, but also used donor areas on the sides of the head
and these are not shown in the photos.

5. You, (Stevie.Dee) and Iron_Man were trumpeting these photos as proof of donor regeneration, saying that Gho had extracted 3858 grafts from a 15x5cm area (75cm2). Well, it seems that the harvested area is probably closer to, lets say, 200cm2, instead. So, things change totally, don't you think?

6. So you can tame 3mm-short beard hairs using water, eh? sorry but I don't agree at all. And anyway, I say it again. Look at the long hairs on the left side. They are hanging freely, so there is no strong gel forcing the hairs against their will.

7. There was no trial, no court, no judge, and no proof. Just an online Advertising Commission that proved nothing. How about that? Iron_Man, roger_that, Stevie.Dee, Suddenly you don't talk about this anymore, eh?

» Nope you dont understand. it doesnt matter what stuff you pull out of your
» as* it still remains WRONG. Just plain Wrong.
»
» Even women have to live wit hthinning hair in the vertex area.
»
» And right they use hair from the vertex are to transplant it 2cm to the
» left. You are just ridiculous and utterly stupid. You dont critizise the
» technique you criticize pictures.
»
» So then Explain to all of Us WHY HST cannot work. Why is this
» according to you impossible?
»
» @matigol : We are not speaking about Acell
»
» PS : I know what you guys are up to, you both hate "surgical" procedures
» thats why you guys keep attacking those kind of things.
»
» You are wrong with water or a fluid you can tame even 3mm hairs. You can
» even tame your beard if its 3mm, and those are thicker hairs.
»
» You are just stupid thats all, you dont have any clues about anything and
» always come up with some " This person is a liar" stories. And if
» everything else fails you call me Leeroy Jenkins. You are ridiculous.
»
» I bet you didnt even read the scientific paper or asked some guys who study
» cell biology.
»
» I bet my as* if one Graft at Gho would cost 1 dollar SpanishDude and
» matigol would praise Gho all around




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

13.04.2011, 17:19

@ Spanish Dude

HT-Forum

 

» 7. There was no trial, no court, no judge, and no proof. Just an online
» advertising commission that proved nothing. How about that? Iron_Man,
» roger_that, Stevie.Dee, Suddenly you don't talk about this anymore, eh?

So why did the plaintiffs (logically not Gho) chose "just an online advertising commission" and not a hardcore judge?
[image]




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 17:19

@ Iron_Man

Furthermore: its a female patient with no alopecia--meaning donor area is bigger

 

The woman on the video is not the woman we are dealing with.

» » So, it is very possible (and logical) that Gho
» harvested those 3858 grafts
» » dispersely across all the available areas, not just the back of the
» head.
»
»
» Behind "KZ" is a real person - and this REAL person is fully aware about
» these photos and where Dr. Gho and Dr. Neumann published these photos.
» Also, other doctors and medical centers who threat these burn victims are
» FULLY aware about their patients as well as about when, where and which
» treatment they got from Dr. Gho - and about the results too. In short, such
» patients are well-known in the medical field! Such patients
» don't look like any Chinese in China!
»
» Does the women in the video look like a Chinese women in China?
»
» http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDb1n_XdpLo&feature=related




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 17:21

@ Iron_Man

HT-Forum

 

» » 7. There was no trial, no court, no judge, and no proof. Just
» an online
» » advertising commission that proved nothing. How about
» that? Iron_Man,
» » roger_that, Stevie.Dee, Suddenly you don't talk about this anymore, eh?
»
» So why did the plaintiffs (logically not Gho) chose "just an online
» advertising commission" and not a hardcore judge?
» [image]


because its cheaper and they are incompetents, lol.




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Iron_Man

13.04.2011, 17:30

@ Spanish Dude

HT-Forum

 

» » » 7. There was no trial, no court, no judge, and no proof.
» Just
» » an online
» » » advertising commission that proved nothing. How
» about
» » that? Iron_Man,
» » » roger_that, Stevie.Dee, Suddenly you don't talk about this anymore,
» eh?
» »
» » So why did the plaintiffs (logically not Gho) chose "just an online
» » advertising commission" and not a hardcore judge?
» » [image]
»
» ---------------------------------------
» because its cheaper and they are incompetents, lol.

Guys, there you can clearly see Spanish Dud's IQ ... :-D




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …

Spanish Dude

13.04.2011, 17:55

@ Iron_Man

HT-Forum

 

for clarification, I meant:
-The Advertising Commission is cheaper than a real, full-fledged court.
-The Benelux doctors are incompetents. lol.

That is why I said "ITS" cheaper (the Commission) and "THEY" are incompetents (the plaintiffs).

and yes, Iron_Man, we all know how intelligent you are, ahem, that is why I need to explain everything to you twice.


» » » » 7. There was no trial, no court, no judge, and no proof.
» » Just
» » » an online
» » » » advertising commission that proved nothing. How
» » about
» » » that? Iron_Man,
» » » » roger_that, Stevie.Dee, Suddenly you don't talk about this anymore,
» » eh?
» » »
» » » So why did the plaintiffs (logically not Gho) chose "just an online
» » » advertising commission" and not a hardcore judge?
» »
» » ---------------------------------------
» » because its cheaper and they are incompetents, lol.
»
» Guys, there you can clearly see Spanish Dud's IQ ... :-D




Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

matigol

14.04.2011, 08:52

@ Stevie.Dee

HT-Forum

 

» @matigol : We are not speaking about Acell

surely you wrote aubout it!


» PS : I know what you guys are up to, you both hate "surgical" procedures
» thats why you guys keep attacking those kind of things.

I`m not attacking it but I totally deny a surgical procedure for me.
Further more I don`t like cheap pics and I can`t imagine, that people like you can be so naive and trust every lousy pic.
I know that I have no biotech-knowledge, like everybody in this forum, but there are lots of users who think they have...:-D


» I bet my as* if one Graft at Gho would cost 1 dollar SpanishDude and
» matigol would praise Gho all around

never ever!!!

To me it seems that Leeroy, Iren and you are one person. You are all the same pesky Gho-promoters!
I think your wars with iren-men were only a show. You turned into the same obsessed Gho-supporter within one hour.
Hours before, your signature includes rants about Gho.




matigol is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Spanish Dude

14.04.2011, 18:01

@ Spanish Dude

Rassman on Gho (ISHRS-2009): "his science was pathetic"

 

As you know, the dutch "Reclame Code Commissie" (Advertising Commission) rejected the complaint filed by several Benelux doctors against Gho.
It rejected the complaint twice. Once in August 2010, and the second time on March 2011.

One of the arguments of the RCC in August 2010 was this:

[image]

Translation
>>>>
The HST method by Dr Gho was presented in a number of conferences, including the the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS) conference
in 2008 and 2009, cited by the complainant. The presentations were well received by his peers as evident from a review of the ISHRS congress of 2008.
<<<<<

However, the RCC didn't apparently know some interesting comments made by Dr. Rassman in 2009.

>>>
I just chaired the session at the annual (2009) ISHRS meeting in Amsterdam and had Dr. Coen Gho as one of the speakers. I had lost my voice, so I could not comment as the chair of that session, but considering that you asked me about him, I will use this as a forum to speak my opinion on what I heard.

Dr. Gho reported that he did 1500 patients with his “cloning” procedure. If I had to give a score to the material he presented using a 1-10 scale for scientific credibility, I’d score it a 1, with 1 being the lowest possible. His science was pathetic, with slides that were blurred and blackened out so that there was really nothing to see. He claimed that his FUE technique cut the follicular units in half longitudinally, and that the part that remained regrew hair, but there was no proof of this in any of the material he showed. <<<

Unfortunately, it seems that the Benelux doctors didn't know this information about dr. Rassman, and they didn't present it to the RCC.
(thus, any association between the Benelux doctors and Dr. Rassman (as speculated by some Gho-fans)seems dubious to me).




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