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KO

02.12.2011, 22:26
 

Follica DIY (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

Is anybody still doing this? In earlier years people did it with sanding, gefitinib, and immunosuppression. However, Follica has been focusing on Lithium Gluconate being tried on humans.

I am thinking about doing this, But I don't have a distinct bald spot (yet) to try it on, so perhaps I may pick the back of the vertex to do a little experiment.


Earlier, I noticed that people were waiting 3 days after wounding to start addition of the topical, however according to the Follica patent, Lithium is applied immediately after dermabrasion and continued twice daily until day 11. It is only with *deep wounding*, like a 4mm punch biopsy that they wait three days prior to application of the topical.

Is anyone interested in starting clinical trials of our own? :)

If you're opposed to this, please just don't respond. Only for those interested in doing it.



36.1.1 LITHIODERM TREATMENT REGIMEN

[00673| Lithium treatment regimens combined with the 2 different types of integumental perturbation are used in this protocol. [00674| In this protocol, on Day 0 the first integumental perturbation is with dermabrasion (DA); Lithioderm (also referred to in this section as "drug " or "product";) is applied topically immediately following DA and then continued twice daily through the second dose on Day 1 1.

[00675] On Day 14, the second type of integumental perturbation, i.e. , a full thickness excision (FTE) biopsy (also referred to as "punch biopsy";), extending to the level of the subcutaneous fat, is performed. The drug will have been discontinued after the final dose on Day 1 1 (2 days prior to this procedure). Application of drug begins again on Day 17, and continues twice daily through to the end of Day 34, with a final dose on Day 35. See the intervention schedule below.

Intervention Schedule l v l I I- 111111 i 11 i -1-

• bi piy ifTE - :jf>pr- . ! I -:io>o - ,Ι

• IO t RE '.cab :!vt i ,n-.or,l

- appro , 'irne t ioj

[00676] The first biopsy on Day 14 is a full thickness excision that is being combined with drug (Lithioderm or placebo) to evaluate if this different integumental perturbation combined with pharmacologic modulation by lithium induces follicular neogenesis. A time-point that is three days post-biopsy (Day 17) is selected for the beginning of drug dosing. Nineteen days of treatment post biopsy is chosen.

[00677] Because the SmPC of Lithioderm indicates that its topical application is generally well tolerated when the drug is applied twice daily for 2 months in the treatment for seborrheic dermatitis, it is postulated that the increased possibility of catching cells that are receptive (before the inductive window for follicular neogenesis may be closed) outweighs the risk of dosing for a few extra days.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

03.12.2011, 21:32

@ KO

Follica DIY

bump




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

04.12.2011, 00:15

@ KO

Follica DIY

It has crossed my mind to do another round of this, now that we have something specific that they're trying on humans. The previous rounds failed but I don't think any of them were directly comparable to this protocol.

I'm not sure. I would need to read up on the new protocol and refresh myself with exactly what was tested a few years ago.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

gettingthere

04.12.2011, 18:31

@ cal

Follica DIY

» It has crossed my mind to do another round of this, now that we have
» something specific that they're trying on humans. The previous rounds
» failed but I don't think any of them were directly comparable to this
» protocol.
»
» I'm not sure. I would need to read up on the new protocol and refresh
» myself with exactly what was tested a few years ago.

How would one get there hands on lithium gluconate and everything necessary for the experiment?




gettingthere is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

04.12.2011, 19:02

@ gettingthere

Follica DIY

I am not sure if lithium gluconate is commercially available in the US, but if it is, it is prescribed for seborrheic dermatitis. Another option is Lithium Chloride.


Reading the protocol, the protocol is basically this:

1) Sterilize and anesthetize the area.
2) Dermabrade 100 microns into the skin, removing the epidermis and lightly disturbing the dermis.
3) Apply lithium gluconate immediately, and twice daily for 11 days in total.


It's not clear whether they rinse the surface after dermabrasion. Overall it seems pretty simple, nothing like the gefitinib stuff people were doing earlier.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
04.12.2011, 19:37

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Have you considered that by not performing these so-called "clinical trials" using properly-developed protocols and without the supervision of trained medical personnel, you may be DESTROYING YOUR SCALP AND FOLLICLES, so that no subsequent treatment, when it finally comes, will work?

I am so sick and tired of these amateur idiots on HairSite peddling these mock kitchen-sink "clinical trials", which, in addition to promoting health risks and exposing HairSite to liability for enabling people to harm themselves, you also may be purchasing and using prescription medications without the proper prescriptions or medical supervision, which is ILLEGAL.

Please stop this and stop promoting harmful and illegal activities on HairSite.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

KO

04.12.2011, 19:40

@ roger_that

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

As I said in my original post, if you're opposed to this, please do not post on this thread. If you're not interested, do not post!


Furthermore, it will not destroy current follicles, a basic knowledge of the skin will tell you that.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
04.12.2011, 19:46

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» As I said in my original post, if you're opposed to this, please do not
» post on this thread. If you're not interested, do not post!
»
»
» Furthermore, it will not destroy current follicles, a basic knowledge of
» the skin will tell you that.

Since when does being opposed to an idea mean one shouldn't post in a thread? So you want to be answered only by people who agree with you?

Also, please tell me what "basic knowledge of the skin" indicates that you might not destroy current follicles? What if someone abrades the skin too aggressively and penetrates deeply enough to destroy follicles? That's actually not too hard to do.

Again, please tell me exactly what "knowledge of the skin" you have that tells you this can't happen?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

jarjarbinx

04.12.2011, 21:06

@ roger_that

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Roger-that, I understand your concerns but one thing to consider is that if we aren't going to try to figure out ways to get things earlier than the system will give things to us then there isn't much point to having hair websites at all. If we aren't going to use this site to try to figure out ways to cut corners and get things faster then all we'll be doing here is coming here and whining and complaining. This will be nothing more than a support group... a kind of pyschological counseling. I kind of think of us as stronger smarter guys who are trying to accomplish things sooner than the system will accomplish things for us - the guys who have some brains and schutzpah and figured out a way to get the job done sooner. The guys who took matters into their own hands and solved the problem ourselves. If all a poster really wants to do is get pyscholigical support that is really a job for mental health professionals. I thought we were coming here to get things done quicker.

I think KO's right. Aren't you sick of hair loss yet? How much hair loss is enough to get you sick of it? I do kind of think that you should decide if you are comrades of we guys who want to figure out a way to beat this darn thing NOW or if you're comrades with the guys who are in counseling over hair loss.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

04.12.2011, 21:11

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» As I said in my original post, if you're opposed to this, please do not
» post on this thread. If you're not interested, do not post!
»
»
» Furthermore, it will not destroy current follicles, a basic knowledge of
» the skin will tell you that.



KO, you're the one who's right. keep doing what you're doing. This forum is about ideas and trying to get a cure sooner rather than later. This is not a counseling office. The people who just want to use this site as a place to express depression and anger about their hair loss can do that here but they should also seek counseling with a mental health professional. This website is here to exchange ideas in our fight against hair loss and what you are doing is exactly the reason this site is here. We are here to try to help ourselves get out of this mess sooner rather than later.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

04.12.2011, 21:22

@ KO

Follica DIY

» I am not sure if lithium gluconate is commercially available in the US, but
» if it is, it is prescribed for seborrheic dermatitis. Another option is
» Lithium Chloride.
»
»
» Reading the protocol, the protocol is basically this:
»
» 1) Sterilize and anesthetize the area.
» 2) Dermabrade 100 microns into the skin, removing the epidermis and lightly
» disturbing the dermis.
» 3) Apply lithium gluconate immediately, and twice daily for 11 days in
» total.
»
»
» It's not clear whether they rinse the surface after dermabrasion. Overall
» it seems pretty simple, nothing like the gefitinib stuff people were doing
» earlier.




1. check out this link because it seems to indicate that lithium gluconate is available:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/60185/lithium-gluconate


2. And here's some more info about lithium gluconate:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2133.2003.05328.x/abstract


3. Check out the posts inside the link below. Someone is saying that you can order lithium gluconate at a website and he names the site in his post:

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-topic/17719

here is what he posted in case you can't open the link:

it appears you can buy it from several sites online. but does anyone read french? no english sites. also the ingredients would be interesting to find out.
check out this page: http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.htm

4. and there's this link:

http://www.21food.com/products/lithium-gluconate-653558.html

5. and this link says that an 8% solution is already available:

http://www.lohmann-chemikalien.de/index.php/dermatological-applications.html


6. and another seller of lithium gluconate:

http://www.indiamart.com/company/3644460/products.html




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

04.12.2011, 21:24

@ KO

Follica DIY

» Is anybody still doing this? In earlier years people did it with sanding,
» gefitinib, and immunosuppression. However, Follica has been focusing on
» Lithium Gluconate being tried on humans.
»
» I am thinking about doing this, But I don't have a distinct bald spot (yet)
» to try it on, so perhaps I may pick the back of the vertex to do a little
» experiment.
»
»
» Earlier, I noticed that people were waiting 3 days after wounding to start
» addition of the topical, however according to the Follica patent, Lithium
» is applied immediately after dermabrasion and continued twice daily until
» day 11. It is only with *deep wounding*, like a 4mm punch biopsy that they
» wait three days prior to application of the topical.
»
» Is anyone interested in starting clinical trials of our own? :)
»
» If you're opposed to this, please just don't respond. Only for those
» interested in doing it.
»
»
»
» 36.1.1 LITHIODERM TREATMENT REGIMEN
»
» [00673| Lithium treatment regimens combined with the 2 different types of
» integumental perturbation are used in this protocol. [00674| In this
» protocol, on Day 0 the first integumental perturbation is with dermabrasion
» (DA); Lithioderm (also referred to in this section as "drug " or "product";)
» is applied topically immediately following DA and then continued twice
» daily through the second dose on Day 1 1.
»
» [00675] On Day 14, the second type of integumental perturbation, i.e. , a
» full thickness excision (FTE) biopsy (also referred to as "punch biopsy";),
» extending to the level of the subcutaneous fat, is performed. The drug will
» have been discontinued after the final dose on Day 1 1 (2 days prior to
» this procedure). Application of drug begins again on Day 17, and continues
» twice daily through to the end of Day 34, with a final dose on Day 35. See
» the intervention schedule below.
»
» Intervention Schedule l v l I I- 111111 i 11 i -1-
»
» • bi piy ifTE - :jf>pr- . ! I -:io>o - ,Ι
»
» • IO t RE '.cab :!vt i ,n-.or,l
»
» - appro , 'irne t ioj
»
» [00676] The first biopsy on Day 14 is a full thickness excision that is
» being combined with drug (Lithioderm or placebo) to evaluate if this
» different integumental perturbation combined with pharmacologic modulation
» by lithium induces follicular neogenesis. A time-point that is three days
» post-biopsy (Day 17) is selected for the beginning of drug dosing. Nineteen
» days of treatment post biopsy is chosen.
»
» [00677] Because the SmPC of Lithioderm indicates that its topical
» application is generally well tolerated when the drug is applied twice
» daily for 2 months in the treatment for seborrheic dermatitis, it is
» postulated that the increased possibility of catching cells that are
» receptive (before the inductive window for follicular neogenesis may be
» closed) outweighs the risk of dosing for a few extra days.


we need to find the correct dose of lithium gluconate, what to mix it with, and how to mix it. What other agents are put into the solution? What is the correct amount of each agent, including the lithium gluconate?




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

04.12.2011, 22:29

@ jarjarbinx

Follica DIY

That's the thing, according to the protocol, it's not mixed with anything. It's just an 8% Lithium Gluconate solution called Lithioderm in France. It's so simple, it's kind of shocking if it actually works.


I agree with you, we are not the type of people who just accept hair loss happening to us, if there is something we can do about it, we need to give it our best shot. By exchanging ideas, we make this a more constructive forum.

Certainly, there are of course risks involved, in Follica's procedure, if you upregulate the Wnt pathway too much, you run the risk of developing tumors (I believe). However, we're looking to minimize the risk by staying firmly within the protocol.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

roger_that

MARYLAND,
05.12.2011, 00:04
(edited by roger_that, 05.12.2011, 00:26)

@ jarjarbinx

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Look, if KO were a legitimate medical doctor or had some sort of valid scientific or clinical credentials, then I'd trust him a lot more and I'd take an interest in what he has to say here. But as far as I'm concerned, this random advice to scratch and dermabrade one's scalp in the bathroom and apply potentially dangerous chemicals to the body, amounts to practicing medicine without a licence. It is uninformed speculation, gambling with one's own well-being, and has no place on a hair information board.

I can understand what you did a bit more with RU, you tested it on yourself and reported the results. While I wouldn't do what you did, at least you bore all the risk.

But this guy is not just testing on himself; he's salivating over other people performing weird experiments on their own bodies, and actively encouraging them to do so, just so he can have some of their random findings.

To encourage this kind of risky auto-experimentation BS on a hairloss information board, I think, goes far beyond what the forum is intended for, and actually treads into the not-so-gray area of... what? Illegality, maybe? Legal exposure for HairSite?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

cal

05.12.2011, 00:48

@ roger_that

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Roger, you have made your opinion abundantly clear on this matter. We hear you. We get it. We respect your viewpoint that perhaps this stuff is a bad idea. But many of us are still interested in doing our own experimenting. And given the nature of the whole forum I don't think it's out of bounds.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.12.2011, 04:35

@ roger_that

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» Look, if KO were a legitimate medical doctor or had some sort of valid
» scientific or clinical credentials, then I'd trust him a lot more and I'd
» take an interest in what he has to say here. But as far as I'm concerned,
» this random advice to scratch and dermabrade one's scalp in the bathroom
» and apply potentially dangerous chemicals to the body, amounts to
» practicing medicine without a licence. It is uninformed speculation,
» gambling with one's own well-being, and has no place on a hair information
» board.
»
» I can understand what you did a bit more with RU, you tested it on yourself
» and reported the results. While I wouldn't do what you did, at least you
» bore all the risk.
»
» But this guy is not just testing on himself; he's salivating over other
» people performing weird experiments on their own bodies, and actively
» encouraging them to do so, just so he can have some of their random
» findings.
»
» To encourage this kind of risky auto-experimentation BS on a hairloss
» information board, I think, goes far beyond what the forum is intended for,
» and actually treads into the not-so-gray area of... what? Illegality,
» maybe? Legal exposure for HairSite?



I'm not saying I don't respect you or your point because I do respect you and your point but this sort of thing - trying to figure out a way to get things early - is one of the points to this board. This is why I want to make sure we get the right stuff and use it in the right amounts - follow the path of the researchers that are already using this stuff - rather than go off the path the researchers are using. You see, if the researchers are using it at a certain dose then that means that there are people who have already had that dose on their heads - the clinical trial subjects. So yes, it hasn't completed all the studies yet but we do have some idea of safety at certain doses for a certain amount of time. And those test subjects will always be on it longer than us so if the studies got stopped because test subjects began to have problems then we could quickly stop using the stuff on ourselves.

There are many people trying experimental treatments. For example, that "boyintown" individual was using latisse off-label. It's happening. Those of us who are unwilling to consider using things early (following the protocols set up by the researchers who are already experimenting with these treatments) use Hairsite as nothing more than a support group. It's Ok to use Hairsite as a support group but it gets down to whether or not we are the support group type or the bold, pro-active, take-action type.

Again, I thinks it's reasonable to use this stuff as long as we follow in the footsteps of the test subjects who have already been using it ahead of us. They will always be on it longer than us because they have already started using it before us. They will serve as our canary in the mine;-) .




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.12.2011, 04:42

@ KO

Follica DIY

» That's the thing, according to the protocol, it's not mixed with anything.
» It's just an 8% Lithium Gluconate solution called Lithioderm in France.
» It's so simple, it's kind of shocking if it actually works.
»
»
» I agree with you, we are not the type of people who just accept hair loss
» happening to us, if there is something we can do about it, we need to give
» it our best shot. By exchanging ideas, we make this a more constructive
» forum.
»
» Certainly, there are of course risks involved, in Follica's procedure, if
» you upregulate the Wnt pathway too much, you run the risk of developing
» tumors (I believe). However, we're looking to minimize the risk by staying
» firmly within the protocol.



So are you saying this stuff is already available in France?

And are you also saying that it's available in the exact form that we need it? And for the record is this the same lithium that you were telling me mimics Wnt7a???? If it's the same lithium that mimics Wnt7a then it seems that it would be useful for trying to create a home-made version of the histogen treatment too. In other words, either for Follica or Histogen we would need this exact same stuff if this is the same lithium that mimics Wnt7a.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

05.12.2011, 07:11

@ jarjarbinx

Follica DIY

I'm not too sure exactly what Histogen is doing with the Wnt7a. I really don't understand their procedure. But definitely lithium's role in the follica procedure is to mimic Wnt7a. So it may be possible to use it for a Histogen experiment. But again, I don't understand Histogen's science really.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

05.12.2011, 08:20

@ jarjarbinx

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Just ignore roger_that. He whined about follica, I flatly refuted his points. But now he has found something else to complain about.

Maybe he enjoys hair loss, but this **** sucks for me, and if there are promising treatments out there, I'm willing to try things. And the more people we have investigating this line of reasoning, the better off we'll be.


I think the first step is to read this follica lithium patent in detail, and make sure you grasp the science. There is a TON of information in there. Maybe we can put our balding heads together and come up with a standardized protocol. The first thing we have to do to try this protocol is find out what lithium salts are usable apart from Lithium gluconate.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

05.12.2011, 16:48

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Just buy the Lithoderm product like Follica is doing. It's not illegal or unavailable (at least on the net) and it is probably not even all that expensive. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Lithoderm is probably a more well-done way of delivering the stuff than we would brew up on our own anyway.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.12.2011, 17:08

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» Just ignore roger_that. He whined about follica, I flatly refuted his
» points. But now he has found something else to complain about.
»
» Maybe he enjoys hair loss, but this **** sucks for me, and if there are
» promising treatments out there, I'm willing to try things. And the more
» people we have investigating this line of reasoning, the better off we'll
» be.
»
»
» I think the first step is to read this follica lithium patent in detail,
» and make sure you grasp the science. There is a TON of information in
» there. Maybe we can put our balding heads together and come up with a
» standardized protocol. The first thing we have to do to try this protocol
» is find out what lithium salts are usable apart from Lithium gluconate.


Why can't we just use that lithium gluconate stuff that's available in france for the scalp?




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

05.12.2011, 19:15
(edited by jarjarbinx, 05.12.2011, 19:35)

@ roger_that

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» » As I said in my original post, if you're opposed to this, please do not
» » post on this thread. If you're not interested, do not post!
» »
» »
» » Furthermore, it will not destroy current follicles, a basic knowledge of
» » the skin will tell you that.
»
» Since when does being opposed to an idea mean one shouldn't post in a
» thread? So you want to be answered only by people who agree with you?
»
» Also, please tell me what "basic knowledge of the skin" indicates that you
» might not destroy current follicles? What if someone abrades the skin too
» aggressively and penetrates deeply enough to destroy follicles? That's
» actually not too hard to do.
»
» Again, please tell me exactly what "knowledge of the skin" you have that
» tells you this can't happen?


Roger_that, you've come to my defense numerous times and I appreciate that. I don't want you to think I don't appreciate that you have defended me in the past because I do. I think you're a good guy and I am not tossing at you. But let me make a friendly point to you so you can see where I am coming from. Here's my point:

What else are we supposed to do?

If we don't try to improvise and make a home-made version of these promising new treatments NOW then we will have to wait years to get them. Wouldn't you rather help try to figure out a way to beat hair loss years NOW rather than waiting years for the new treatments to come to market? You can't possibly want to stay bald years longer than you have to.

You only get one life Roger_that. Time is passing by. Do you really want to throw years away needlessly when you might be able to get the same thing NOW instead?




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

06.12.2011, 00:35

@ jarjarbinx

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

I don't believe Lithioderm is available here in the US. I am also in general wary of online pharmacies. If you are comfortable ordering this online go for it, I'll have to figure out which places are reputable.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

06.12.2011, 05:33

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

It's a topical gel rather than a pill. It isn't very high priced to the consumer. The active ingredient itself is dirt cheap for the producer. Users will want to buy it repeatedly if it works right.

All this strikes me as a pretty low counterfeit risk, at least as overseas drugs go.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

06.12.2011, 05:55

@ cal

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

Btw, why did you guys use the EGFR inhibition protocol to grow hair in the previous experiments? From what I'm reading, EGFR inhibition seems to be the exact opposite of what the Lithium is supposed to do (upregulate Wnt7a pathway), whereas EGFR I believe downregulates it.

Follica's original paper was about upregulating Wnt7a, so I'm not really sure why they patented EGFR-i/Immunosuppression protocols.

EDIT: Never mind, apparently the EGFR network is more complicated than what I wrote above.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

gettingthere

06.12.2011, 08:40

@ cal

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» Just buy the Lithoderm product like Follica is doing. It's not illegal or
» unavailable (at least on the net) and it is probably not even all that
» expensive. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Lithoderm is probably
» a more well-done way of delivering the stuff than we would brew up on our
» own anyway.

If anyone finds the link to a product that seems like the lithium used by follica could they please link it. Thank you in advance.




gettingthere is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

07.12.2011, 00:04

@ gettingthere

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» » Just buy the Lithoderm product like Follica is doing. It's not illegal
» or
» » unavailable (at least on the net) and it is probably not even all that
» » expensive. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Lithoderm is
» probably
» » a more well-done way of delivering the stuff than we would brew up on
» our
» » own anyway.
»
» If anyone finds the link to a product that seems like the lithium used by
» follica could they please link it. Thank you in advance.


I think you should use the exact same stuff - which is the dermatological medicine used in france.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

07.12.2011, 01:16

@ jarjarbinx

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

This is the exact one, from this manufacturer, they're using.

http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.htm




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

albert

07.12.2011, 05:28

@ KO

Follica DIY

Hey guys, let's keep this thread alive since I think there's a big chance of, at least, obtain new knowledge about hairloss doing this kind of stuff, even if it doesn't work, that would mean we may discard the way we're testing. So please, guys that are not interested in Follica DIY and wants to always stay in Fin&Minox, shut up and don't disturb here.


» 2) Dermabrade 100 microns into the skin, removing the epidermis and lightly
» disturbing the dermis.


BTW KO, how would you get your skin dermabrassed?




albert is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

07.12.2011, 05:38
(edited by KO, 07.12.2011, 05:53)

@ KO

Follica DIY

If you guys are interested in studying this, I would make the Follica lithium patent your Bible. There is so much going on in there it's not even funny.

Earlier it's been discussed that even if the Follica treatment works, so what? The hair will fall out due to DHT. Apparently, the Follica solution to this is to really create "female" hair on top of a male scalp by "birthing" the hairs by exposure to estrogen. I kid you not.



[00302] FSCs generate new hair follicles that preserve the type of hair follicle that is typical for each location of skin or scalp. For example, FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL typically generate atrophic follicles with vellus or club hairs. In contrast, FSCs from the occipital scalp of the same male typically generate follicles with terminal hair that are not subject to involution in response to DHT.

[00303] However, if external signals are provided that interfere with this "default" program, the FSCs responsible for follicle formation may be reprogrammed. FSCs in the process of asymmetric division and subsequent differentiation are susceptible to signals (such as estrogen or testosterone) that alter the determinism of their differentiation program. For example, FSCs from the coronal scalp of a male with MPHL, under the influence of estrogen, can generate follicles with terminal hair that are not subject to involution in response to DHT. Such follicles have characteristics usually associated with: (i) pre-alopecia follicles in the coronal scalp; (ii) female-type follicles on the coronal scalp; or (iii) occipital scalp type follicles. Alternatively, by antagonizing estrogen or testosterone, the assumption of the default hair pattern in a particular skin area may be prevented. For example, a female's unwanted moustache hair may be reduced by perturbing the skin of the upper lip and administering a testosterone antagonist.


That is kindof bizarre and kindof elegant.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

08.12.2011, 04:44

@ KO

Follica DIY

I'm more curious if the estro/test environment issue is preventing follicle formation/rejuvenation with just the topical lithium alone.

That would explain why our Follica DIY experiments haven't been working so far.

Did anyone trying topical lithium + topical estrogen (or a topical AR blocker) at the same time? It might have been done but I don't recall it.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

08.12.2011, 05:14

@ cal

Follica DIY

I believe Z79 tried topical estrogen cream and lithium cream for 11 days just like the protocol, and got no growth unfortunately. However, I've heard of a guy named hatchet on regrowth, who got results with Lithium+DMSO.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

gettingthere

08.12.2011, 08:16

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» This is the exact one, from this manufacturer, they're using.
»
» http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.htm

People already tested this though with a dermaroller or some type of dermabrasion and lithoderm right? Or were they using something else?




gettingthere is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

09.12.2011, 02:39

@ gettingthere

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» » This is the exact one, from this manufacturer, they're using.
» »
» » http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.htm
»
» People already tested this though with a dermaroller or some type of
» dermabrasion and lithoderm right? Or were they using something else?


I believe some people have tested it, Z79 tried it with no success, and a guy named hatchet on regrowth tried it with some success. But this is really the core of Follica's approach, and if we're serious about it, we can't write it off due to one or two failures.

Is anyone on regrowth.com that can find out? I'm no longer able to register.

Any lithium ion producing compound should work. Lithium succinate is also commercially available in UK I believe. I'm going to look around for what's available in stores before I go about ordering things online.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

KO

17.12.2011, 20:39

@ cal

Follica DIY

EDIT: n/m




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

26.12.2011, 07:51

@ KO

Follica DIY

bump


» Is anybody still doing this? In earlier years people did it with sanding,
» gefitinib, and immunosuppression. However, Follica has been focusing on
» Lithium Gluconate being tried on humans.
»
» I am thinking about doing this, But I don't have a distinct bald spot (yet)
» to try it on, so perhaps I may pick the back of the vertex to do a little
» experiment.
»
»
» Earlier, I noticed that people were waiting 3 days after wounding to start
» addition of the topical, however according to the Follica patent, Lithium
» is applied immediately after dermabrasion and continued twice daily until
» day 11. It is only with *deep wounding*, like a 4mm punch biopsy that they
» wait three days prior to application of the topical.
»
» Is anyone interested in starting clinical trials of our own? :)
»
» If you're opposed to this, please just don't respond. Only for those
» interested in doing it.
»
»
»
» 36.1.1 LITHIODERM TREATMENT REGIMEN
»
» [00673| Lithium treatment regimens combined with the 2 different types of
» integumental perturbation are used in this protocol. [00674| In this
» protocol, on Day 0 the first integumental perturbation is with dermabrasion
» (DA); Lithioderm (also referred to in this section as "drug " or "product";)
» is applied topically immediately following DA and then continued twice
» daily through the second dose on Day 1 1.
»
» [00675] On Day 14, the second type of integumental perturbation, i.e. , a
» full thickness excision (FTE) biopsy (also referred to as "punch biopsy";),
» extending to the level of the subcutaneous fat, is performed. The drug will
» have been discontinued after the final dose on Day 1 1 (2 days prior to
» this procedure). Application of drug begins again on Day 17, and continues
» twice daily through to the end of Day 34, with a final dose on Day 35. See
» the intervention schedule below.
»
» Intervention Schedule l v l I I- 111111 i 11 i -1-
»
» • bi piy ifTE - :jf>pr- . ! I -:io>o - ,Ι
»
» • IO t RE '.cab :!vt i ,n-.or,l
»
» - appro , 'irne t ioj
»
» [00676] The first biopsy on Day 14 is a full thickness excision that is
» being combined with drug (Lithioderm or placebo) to evaluate if this
» different integumental perturbation combined with pharmacologic modulation
» by lithium induces follicular neogenesis. A time-point that is three days
» post-biopsy (Day 17) is selected for the beginning of drug dosing. Nineteen
» days of treatment post biopsy is chosen.
»
» [00677] Because the SmPC of Lithioderm indicates that its topical
» application is generally well tolerated when the drug is applied twice
» daily for 2 months in the treatment for seborrheic dermatitis, it is
» postulated that the increased possibility of catching cells that are
» receptive (before the inductive window for follicular neogenesis may be
» closed) outweighs the risk of dosing for a few extra days.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

26.12.2011, 07:55

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» This is the exact one, from this manufacturer, they're using.
»
» http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.


bump




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

jarjarbinx

26.12.2011, 08:06

@ KO

Not interested; also, you may be destroying your existing follicles...

» This is the exact one, from this manufacturer, they're using.
»
» http://www.labcatal.com/produits3ld.htm



Ok so I want this stuff so how can I get it?

Does anyone know how we can get this stuff in America?

Let's get rolling on finding this stuff because I have a bit of a plan but I need to start by getting this stuff.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

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